^ Stating opinion as fact.

 

The only think Has/Tak can do is pressure retailers in NA by not selling to them if they sell 3rd parties. This will only cause many stores to drop Has/Tak, and we'll see more specialization in 3p stores.

 

I'd back him up on the Fantoys side of things at the very least, as a big fan of Slag (The character) I have never once been tempted by any of the so-called MP versions of him because they just fail to live up to the triceratops shaped void in my heart. Far too bland and generic for what is supposed to be an angry character

Of course I'm Mecheon, enemy of MP Collectors, who will never rest until someone makes Dinobots that turn into dinosaurs that have acknowledge 20 years of scientific advancement

Nope, more stores will drop 3rd party. The ones that specialise in multiple lines sell far more official stuff than 3rd party stuff, just given how many of each are produced

 

Wouldn't one have to consider 3P better than official to support your statement? Because I don't think TT does that bad a job to declare them shit vs 3P.

And, there's nothing wrong with choosing official over 3P when you think they're better either. And about the characters, the characters and the figures belong to Hasbro and Takara. The Box art may be another artist, but most box art is based on the toys themselves. The character names and bios came from Hasbro. And besides the point about the artist, who likely worked for Tamara anyway, the property belongs to HasTak.

And reread, he wasn't saying that, he was talking about all the bitching people do. And how NO one can just be happy. Not that he knows for fact.

TT May disappoint you, but not me, so, have your opinion, it doesn't speak for everyone.

 

They likely would be for me, if not for price and other factors.

I have weirdly specific criteria.

I would buy 3P if the following criteria were met:

Looks as good or better than Hastak's offering
And/or No Hasktak offering available
I can afford it at the time
It's one of my must have characters (special affinity and connection to for whatever reason.)
Has a fun, tight, intuitive and elegant transformation scheme that doesn't look like plastic origami so much to me that I'm afraid of it upon seeing reviews.  

Which, sadly, never seems to happen in terms of meeting ALL those criteria. As such, I instead always end up getting the official MPs (and even some toys as stand-ins) because the price is such that I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of aesthetic perfection. (E.g. Ironhide's hip kibble, Shockwave's color, though the latter remains to be seen, etc.)

I am hopeful that there will be exceptions to this. For instance, I bought the KO MP-10 because I felt it looked better than the official figure, AND it was cheaper. And I'm satisfied with it. I bought KO Soundwave MP cassettes because the asking price for the official was, imo, outrageous. And they look great imo.

I'm hopeful for an Astrotrain and a new Megatron for example - I passed in Apollyon because for the price I wanted him to look closer to the toon, and have a simpler, IMO more elegant transformation. My fingers are crossed for MakeToys' take on the character to meet my criteria. I passed on DX9's Chigurh for the same reasons I passed on Apollyon.

I also have my eye on X-Transbots' Kup and KFC's Wreck-Gar analogs. I hope they meet my criteria because those seem likely to be neglected characters, and they ARE on my must have lists.

- 3P MP scale figures, while gorgeous, don't tick enough boxes for me to justify the prices. The only exception to that are KOs, which, I don't know if those can be considered "3P figures."

The only 3P figure to date other than KOs which has met all my criteria by my standards was KFC's transistor... but 1) the flaking paint turned me off, so I'd have to wait for the new unpainted version, and 2) Blaster is NOT one of my must-have characters so... sadly... must pass. Even though he LOOKS exactly as I'd want Blaster to and the price and transformation work for me. I have to choose between figures all the time due to budgeting. So he gets the pass.

So until and unless 3P prices come down or Japanese retailers that can give me the same early bird discounts places like HLJ can for official sets start selling 3P as well (I know some do, but the price differential does not seem to carry over,) I am sadly forced to stick to official MPs and even some toys as stand-ins.

I would LOVE to get into 3P as, aesthetically at least, some of them look absolutely brilliant and IMHO blow away the official versions in many instances. But priorities are priorities.

 

Only thing I can imagine is the rear wheel transformation of MP-22. THe only other figure I know of who has something similar is Toyworld's Orion.

 

That's not how business works. All of the designs stem from the Microchange and Diaclone lines which were started in the late seventies as a reaction to the craze and popularity at the time for Robots. If any of those toy designs were untertaken by an employee of Takara then that intellectual property is one hundred percent the property of the holding company.

Saying the designs are open to interpretation of ownership is nonsense.

 

I honestly have no idea how you reached that conclusion. What I said was choosing the better interpretation was up to the customer, not the company. I personally feel TT is doing the best shockwave and I'll be picking theirs up for my collection. I'm not even considering doubling up, since I don't feel the other two offerings even come close.

 

I don't question who owns the actual trademarks for Transformers characters.

I also don't care about IP infringement.

Maybe if I worked for Takara or knew someone who was part of the design team I'd give a shit but that's not the case so there's no reason for me to get worked up about it.

Contrary to the "white knight" mentality I am under no obligation to buy official figures just to support a line if I no longer think they are worth paying UK import prices for....which has increasingly been the case from MP22 onwards.

Tracks was the only new mold I bought since the original release of Bumblebee, a final throw of the dice to see if I could get into the newer run of Kobayashi figures.

It will be the last official MP I ever buy.

 

There's plenty of places to buy that are cheaper than UK import prices though. Only time I don't buy from Japan is if it's a Mall exclusive I want.

Design wise it's totally subjective and if they aren't doing it for you then they simply aren't doing it for you. Nowt you can do to help that.

 

good thing im stockpiling


they can try to slow it down and make it more difficult.. but you cant stop it. i seem to be able to buy several things that are "illegal" just fine

 

I think we need a more nuanced rating system for MP-style figures, and for the various companies, than the current system of:
- Plastic Jesus
- Shit

Maybe a 1-5 score?
A-F?
A % like RT?

I also don't get vowing to never again buy from manufacturer X, unless they ran over my dog or something. There is no existing company I can think of where if they put out a good looking, well designed, well reviewed figure I would refuse to buy it because they'd disappointed me in the past. Refuse to pre-order or buy before thorough reviews and feedback? Of course. But after lots of people get one and say it's great and I like the pics and video reviews? Why not?

 

wtf is going on here....i came on this thread to read about toys and...ugh...

 

I won't say your assertion is wrong, but it's just as much an assertion as people claiming retailers will go 3P over official if push came to shove. We'd need an actual retailer to give us some stats, assuming they were willing.

As a counterargument, I'd agree that a store might sell more UNITS of official Hasbro products, but that doesn't mean they see more profits. The prices (and hence margins) on imported products is significantly higher, whether you're talking official imports like TT UW/Fembot TF's, or 3P stuff. The price tags on 3P combiners and MP's is particularly hefty.

When you sell an in stock item like say a CHUG that is available at your local Walmart, Target, TRU etc, you can only charge a slightly higher price unless the product is in limited supply or possibly discontinued. In fact you might be making less than the local big box store as the consumer who'll pay $15 and walk out the door might only be willing to pay you $18 with shipping, so your pricing strategy needs to account for the total shipped consumer price. So until something is hard to find (ie I still see Generations Whirl at Target) the only extra lift you can work into the pricing is the convenience of a customer not having to hunt around t find a particular item.

I'll be interested in seeing what tactics Hasbro would use against NA retailers. Seems like they can only use the threat of legal action as they'd have to prove that the 3P's are actually an illegal use of IP or likeness rights, something that's tough on toys that are not outright KO's, and the US retailers don't sell KO's to the best of my knowledge. They could apply economic pressures by limiting or pricing up the availability of official products. But if I understand it correctly, most retailers deal with Hasbro through a distributor, rather than obtaining stock directly from Hasbro, so it'll be a second hand sort of pressure that the distributor would have to agree to.

interesting discussion for sure... but seeing that Hasbro doesn't have an issue selling off wholesale stock, I'd be surprised if they commit more than a relatively small amount of resources to pursuing 3P sales in the US.

 

I think Apollyon despite mine being a decent quality figure, is a figure that could be greatly improved, but, I much prefer the looks of XTB Inferno and Grapple to all the others. And, I still prefer Apollyon to the MT drawing that was released.

I love Sphinx, but don't like the OM / MMC version of Inferno. I'm not tied to any 3P company, but I'll buy every official. It's just a preference of brand and aesthetics and it has nothing to do per se with loyalty, but everything to do with not having any issues with any of the officials great enough to keep me from buying the next.

I don't need Metal or weight or thin fragile panels to eliminate kibble or any of that BS, I honestly appreciate the TT figures for what they are, and I find nothing shitty about them. Although, I will say Tracks could have been better, especially in the legs, but, I don't find him shit at all.

 

ive been thinking about this.... ive come to the following bullet point thoughts



* i like being a bad boy with bad boy toys... hasbro taking actions makes buying 3p even sexier and more of a 1%er kind of thing

* im verrrry curious who butters the niche etailers bread better? my strong suspicion is tcp, cp, td, etc make more off 3p then haslaw... just a hunch

* not sure what would stop the etailers from creating fake store fronts on ebay where they would actually have the benefit of not having to offer rewards programs, returns, free shipping over 150, post sale care etc.. black markets dont benifit consumers


*if hasbro did somehow shrink the 3p product available to me... wow that would save me some money.. money not spent on 3p... money not spent on hasbro product... because im fairly certain hasbro taking action against my most beloved products would have a overall chilling effect on toy buying...... to be perfectly frank, between me and my 3 kids... we own a lot of toys. the investment in piles of hollow hasbro junk offends me more then the stuff i keep in cases. id love for hasbro to piss me off enough i can muster the strength to ban all new purchases, because i already hate myself for buying that target MLP gift set or that stupid oversized storm trooper, or the hollow mess of a 3rd time recolored cw figure

* i appreciate hasbro standing up for itself... just curious if their execs have any clue how their own ineptness created the 3p market... their insentience on not giving their customers what they wanted.... im sure this is totally lost on them. im scared to see how the tf line would look without 3p driving forces pushing hasbro

 

Reviews and other feedback have no influence on my purchases, I make my own mind up.

 

Agreed. I'm also very interested to see what Hastak can actually do to slow the sales. I have no problem with them releasing more figures and competing directly, since we all win from that. Trying to get other sellers to not carry 3P stuff just seems petty. It does seem like more stores will simply specialize in that case, which is fine. I'm already seeing cheaper prices on Ebay for 3P stuff than I do at the etailers. Maybe having a direct seller is exactly what this market needs.

 

I think you're also conflating. You're conflating "work output" vs. "talent."

The designer employed by Takara in the mid 70s to design the Car Robot Countach LP500S Super Tuning had already been "credited" by being compensated for his work. But that's it, that's where the credit for his design ends. He (or his boss, or someone else at Takara) was directed to arbitrarily (or not) pick a luxury super car and create a robot using that as a basis.

Someone else in a totally separate company-Hasbro-made the executive decision to license a whole bunch of designs/molds/toys from Takara, and the Car Robot Countach LP500S Super Tuning was included.

Someone else in Hasbro decided to contract a totally separate company, Marvel Comics, to develop a brand behind these newly-acquired licenses. Bob Budianksy (or someone else) takes the Car Robot Countach LP500S Super Tuning and turns him into Sunstreaker.

Someone in Hasbro again decides to make a cartoon out of these newly acquired licensed designs and some animator(s) in Sunbow (maybe Japanese, maybe not) is/are tasked with translating Sunstreaker to the tv screen for the first time. This first animator makes many changes in this translation...making the legs longer, the torso skinnier, etc.

That toy designer of the Car Robot Countach LP500S Super Tuning doesn't get any kind of discussion on an internet message board some 40 years after the fact if Hasbro never steps into the picture. Masterpiece never exists if Sunbow hadn't animated their models so differently vs. the toys. Sunstreaker as a character doesn't exist without Marvel/Budiansky selecting the Car Robot Countach LP500S Super Tuning to feature in their stories.

Sunstreaker doesn't exist without the output of each of these creators, AND without the corporate decisions of high level executives in Hasbro and Takara.

I know you're talking strictly about the artistic rendition of the character, but my point is the artistic rendition of the character is NOT solely dependent on the original Japanese designer. He would have had ZERO clue that his work would be made into a very popular character in a billion dollar cornerstone franchise, and at the time, he was likely compensated well for his work in designing the toy. But that's it.

He was told to pick a super car (or the super car was picked for him) and he designed a robot out of that. Boom. Compensated. His output (Car Robot Countach LP500S Super Tuning) was the input of some other person along a chain of inputs and outputs that eventually yielded Sunstreaker. Yes, the actual design model exists because of him. But we are still talking about it today because of a whole bunch of other people. Otherwise without them, his design would have fallen into the dust of forgotten memory.

Do we take it a step further? Do we say that even the toy designer would be no where if he didn't have a Lambo Countach to work off of. What about the engineer who created the Countach for Lamborghini...do you hold the position that Lamborghini doesn't "own" the design of that car?