Is 3rd party the future of Masterpiece?

Discussion in 'Transformers 3rd Party Discussion' started by Last Laugh, Jan 2, 2016.

  1. merphul

    merphul Well-Known Member

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    here's one pretty big difference to keep in mind, and by no means is it the defining difference.

    the 3P's will borrow/improve on clever ideas from TT, TT doesn't borrow/improve on clever ideas from 3P. I understand why TT doesn't do this, but I think it will always handicap them in a sense. And don't tell me that TT designers are completely oblivious to the 3P MP's out there.

    Now don't get me wrong, I always buy the official versions cuz I love me some TT, but there are things that are now practically "standard" in 3P stuff such as articulated fingers and light effects that TT doesn't seem likely to adopt soon.
     
  2. Underwear

    Underwear Banned

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    T'cracker did mentioned before that TT designers are aware of 3P MPs & let me quote him:

    The above info was posted by him last year on the main MP thread.
     
  3. Dr. Prime

    Dr. Prime Dr. Prime

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    Nope, and I've never really felt the urge to purchase any of them. Again, I think they look awesome and I have messed around with several of them and they are pretty good quality. Just feel like the price is way more than the value it would have for me. Fansproject and GCreations Dinos have really scratched the itch for me. I could also care less about scale which probably has a lot to do with it.

    I realize it may never happen, but if and when Hastak releases the rest of the MP dinobots, I'll be all over them, and then everyone else will fire sale their 3rd party dinobots :lol  I might pick them up then ;) 
     
  4. deaculpa

    deaculpa Seven Star Fist

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    Wouldn't mind a new term to replace 'masterpiece'. It's morphed into something bigger and better that 3rd parties really own and control the direction of now, while takara is left to make toys that already have characters now. Takara/hasbro can have 'masterpiece', I'm no longer interested in their "masterpieces".
     
  5. Underwear

    Underwear Banned

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    You sound very snobbish.
     
  6. merphul

    merphul Well-Known Member

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    hrrrm, I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but if anything has been adopted in recent releases, it doesn't seem like anything large enough to notice.

    I've said before, if TT execs really wanted to be jerks or save money they could take a 3P and tell their designers to copy it but make some minor improvements. but them the designers would probably throw a fit as to them it's, understandably, something like their "art" whereas to the execs it's a commodity and to us it's a toy.

    lol, this reminds me of the discussions where people were arguing that they could call a toy a "masterpiece" because it was in their opinion a high quality piece of work without there being confusion with the toyline "Masterpiece" and others saying that it would naturally get mixed up.

    how about "MAST3RPI3C3"? "3MP"? "mazdapeez"?
     
  7. Last Laugh

    Last Laugh Well-Known Member

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    1 vote for mazdapeez

    Acutally better yet:
    mathdapeeth
     
  8. shadowfall1976

    shadowfall1976 The Alpha and the Optimus

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    I get the opinion thing and all, but.... :lol 
     
  9. deaculpa

    deaculpa Seven Star Fist

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    if not wanting to give hastak your money because you dont like their product makes you a snob, im a huge one.

    if you really think about it, itd bekinda weird not to adopt practices if they were just plain better, like more efficient right?. Tcracker has told us that hastak does reverse engineer some things. i dont know of anything specific but it would be only natural. like you said, nothing overt.

    'piMPs'
     
  10. botfan

    botfan Quote this Avatar

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    The question this thread poses came strongly into my mind after the last round of rumors from TC on the MP speculation thread. I can honestly say I am not that excited about any of the figures they could release, since being disappointed by TT releases has become a norm. They have more misses than hits and it's hard to keep up enthusiasm for their stuff with that kind of track record. On the other hand, if FT announced those same characters that are rumored in the MP thread I would get EXTREMELY EXCITED. UNBELIEVABLY EXCITED, even. I'm especially happy that FT is now taking fan feedback seriously and modifying their releases accordingly. It strongly endears me to their company and their releases. I am literally becoming a full blown FT fanboy.

    Nothing stings harder than seeing an alright mold that could be great and getting no response from the company when a number of people try to contact them. Ironhide could have been an awesome figure, but since TT won't take feedback from fans to improve their work they end up committing to a release that is only "OK" or completely "blah". The shit TT pulled with the seekers is really too much. There's no way I'm shelling out for 3 more figures from the same mold at $200 a pop. I already bought MP03, MP06, 3XMP-11 and now they're releasing coneheads that look like complete trash. Ramjet is literally the ugliest MP released (worse than MP05) and they expect to release 2 more of that? Rather than butcher an already overused mold they should have come up with something new for the coneheads, if only to satisfy the optics on those figures. I know that doesn't adhere to the "purity" of the designs for the original toys, but fuck, when that's the outcome of being too pure, then baby, it's time to get dirty!

    Calling 3P MP stuff MP is more of a fan thing, just to indicate the style they're trying to emulate. No 3P company calls their stuff MP. If the fans want to call it something else, that's cool, but we all know that 3P are essentially building on the MP brand that Hasui established.
     
  11. LigerPrime

    LigerPrime Well-Known Member

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    Why yes, I fully concur with you. For the past year, I have been so much more into 3P releases- especially products that fit into the CHUG line.

    And you're not? He's entitled to his opinion and you, yours.

    You have to concur with me once again, wan.

    Deaculpa - feel free to report the above post.

    The above user was previously banned from this board for trolling and flame baiting and has since gone 'mental' when his identity has been exposed by local posters/collectors in my country! XD
     
  12. deaculpa

    deaculpa Seven Star Fist

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    yeh, its being taken a bit literally when the point/my perspective was really that hasbro doesnt really own 'Masterpiece' anymore, aside from the literal name - the aesthetic and size arent really determined by hastak anymore, 3rd parties do thier own thing instead of hastak leading them... which mkes me wonder if thats why theyve taken such an odd direction with their look in the last few bots like ironhide and hotrod.

    edit - and of course feel free to disagree, id rather discuss/hear points than argue and sling names.
     
  13. botfan

    botfan Quote this Avatar

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    You sound very snobbish.















    Lol, :D ;) , I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Totally got you :) . But seriously, to your point, I totally agree. HasTak or TT have totally lost the cred they once enjoyed on the MP line. I don't think people look at their releases the way they used to and assume that their figures will become the ones they keep for certain characters. I'm not canceling my pre-order for FT hound because he looks AWESOME and to be totally honest I seriously, seriously doubt that TT can do better on their rumored hound. Look at grinder, for example. Personally, I think he kicks MP08 up and down the message board and I'm very happy I got rid of MP08 to make room for him. The more stuff the 3Ps release, the less attractive TT stuff looks. I'm way more excited for FT and GP releases than I am for TT. Maybe if Hasui comes back things will change, but that doesn't look likely to happen.
     
  14. merphul

    merphul Well-Known Member

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    it's very simple, HasTak is actually running all the 3P's. they release "meh" MP's and the fandom goes, "oh screw this, I'm gonna go pay an extra 50% when the 3P version comes out".

    seriously though, MP's are a product line that have limited unit runs and take a very significant resource investment compared to other TF's, not to mention all the other toylines HasTak is involved with. I wouldn't be surprised if the top execs consider the line a niche/passion product that they aren't personally invested too much in as the bulk of the money is elsewhere. a 3P operating in this arena is often devoting a significant chunk of their resources (or maybe all) towards these products. They likely can't afford to have more than the occasional product bomb.

    I'm not saying that the TT designers don't care about MP's, they probably care as much or even more than the 3P designers. But on the grand scheme of things the company can afford for an MP to be "meh" as opposed to a 3P MP that can get very sidetracked for a mediocrely performing product. Obviously I can't know how all this translates into the consumer experience, either from a product perspective or a service perspective, but one company WANTS a product to succeed, whereas the other one NEEDS a product to succeed. As the saying goes, the wolf is running for its supper, the rabbit is running for its life.

    what was my point again? oh yeah. with all the 3P players now in the thrimp (3MP?) game and the price of a meh product being fairly significant, it feels like the bar has been raised in the 3P MP arena and I think it's pretty awesome.
     
  15. TattooedRobot

    TattooedRobot Too Much Horror Business TFW2005 Supporter

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    This conversation just encapsulated the state of MP. TT drops the fucking ball hard, so hard and Third Parties pick it up and score again and again and again. I have no idea why this surprises anyone It's like Lucy and Charlie Brown with the football. That's and old reference but apt.
     
  16. shadowfall1976

    shadowfall1976 The Alpha and the Optimus

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    I very much look at my MP figures and the coming one's as the ones I keep and prefer for the characters they are...because, they actually and officially are the characters they are. I find the MP figures perfectly fine, and I'm more than content with them.

    That said, if I get Willis, I'll keep him even if an official comes out like Sphinx. But, they won't be the go to figures, they will supplement my collection as bonus figures. Certain characters I'll own more than one of, but not all, and for those, I'll wait for the officials. I prefer officials, but I will own a few 3P before it's over, just not many.
     
  17. botfan

    botfan Quote this Avatar

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    It's cool that you feel that way, it's just not a sentiment I can relate to. It doesn't really make sense to me to be loyal to TT for these characters. It's not really "theirs" to begin with. Somewhere in Japan there's a really old Japanese cartoonist that is getting completely boned for not getting the credit he deserves for coming up with these incredible, timeless designs. TT is just some big empty shell that profits off his ideas and not the incarnation of where those ideas come from. These designs can only be claimed legally, not artistically (since that designer is not in the picture at all), and if TT can't make a strong enough claim against the 3Ps, then they don't fully own the designs. At that point, any creative attempt to pay homage to the designs from that old Japanese cartoonist's work is fair game and there's nothing wrong with choosing 3Ps over TT stuff when they do a better job of it.

    EDIT: This just in from the MP speculation thread. TB77 reports that Jazz and Megatron will likely disappoint MP fans and the fans are to blame for expecting too much. He says that much like the design for Ironhide, don't expect 'magic' when it comes to kibble and appearance (basically, expect laziness and shitty looks). Shocking news, TT disappoints again, stay tuned for more as it develops...

    TB77 also claims Hasbro will be taking legal action against the 3Ps to stop them from selling in NA. Result - more business for robotkingdom and ebay sellers in China.
     
  18. Goaliebot

    Goaliebot All Makes and Models

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    I have no problem with folks considering 3P better than Takara or vice versa. Just don't be a dick about it.* People can disagree yet respect each other as fans. There shouldn't need to be any "PC master race"'stuff among TF fans - that crap is annoying as hell in video game forums.

    (*Im not saying anyone in this discussion is being a dick, just throwing out a general point)
     
  19. Nighthawkblack

    Nighthawkblack Well-Known Member

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    Starting to like 3p more than official. Have a better chance of getting the look I want and materials used with 3p than mass produced qty with decisions revised and argued over by many people in huge companies. That said, I still buy the official ones.

    I think there should be a rule, to work on TFs for hasbro and TT you have to have played with G1 as a kid or drooled over the cartoon.
     
  20. Zambot

    Zambot Pixarian Artobot

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    Takara is still producing better MP figures. So no 3rd Party is NOT the future.

    As a whole, there are few 3rd party designs that live in that MP space successfully.

    MMC Sphinx is the most wholly successful 3rd Party "MP" from an Aesthetic and Build quality perspective.

    Fanstoys Dibots get close, but they can't seem to sculpt decent faces and their alt faces are horrible, although Stomp is pretty successful. FT Hound has an awful face sculpt, so much so, that they sculpted a new one because of fan complaints. FT Perceptor has a terrible face sculpt and the body proportions of MP-10. Huh?

    Maketoys Chromedome is nice, I own it, but their other "MP" efforts take too many liberties. All miss the mark.

    KFC's quality severely hampers their output, but they have some decent aesthetic efforts, but not consistent.

    3rd Party is too hit or miss to be considered the future of anything.

    Say what you want about Takara's choices with kibble or certain detailing but on the whole they are on point and have way more successes than failures.