I'll never understand how people can say the Bayverse TF designs are BAD.

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by NGW, May 5, 2018.

  1. NGW

    NGW Rawr

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    Granted, they may not be what you remembered as a kid or what you wanted to see from a live action Transformers film, I get it.

    But to call them bad? They're badass alien robots, there's some really cool, unique designs. Like, just for a recent example (and because his new studio series figure is a masterpiece) movieverse Grimlock. That's just fucking cool, both modes. He's a big metal t-rex that turns into a hulking barbarian warlord with a head straight out of the Guyver.

    Not all are perfect, Devastator was pretty poorly done. But far more look really sick than not.

    Hate the films if you want, the designs are awesome.
     
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  2. Venixion

    Venixion Member of the notorious Pew-Pew Posse

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    Because personal tastes exist. I think most of them are pretty ugly. (No offense meant to those who love em) and while I love my Steelbane, he came with loose joints and armor, right outta the package. Plus his transformation is a hot mess.

    Cogman is a must have and I'd like to have Blackout.

    Barricade would look much better with a normal head instead of a creepy, insect head.

    The Decepticons come in boring ass colors.

    The faces are mostly insect/predator or beardy. I hated space-wizard beard robots as a kid, I hate em now. Hound looks like one of LotR's lost dwarves. I've never liked bug transformers either.

    The proportions are off and the facial features are exaggerated, over-complicated and really deformed.

    Keep in mind, I'm not saying they're smouldering pieces of shit. I'm just saying I personally can't stand most of them visually. I also think Beast Wars and Animated are pretty ugly.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
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  3. Novaburnhilde

    Novaburnhilde Neoseed

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    Different strokes and all that.
     
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  4. DOTM Bumblebee

    DOTM Bumblebee I must be some kind of nut...

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    Different people have different tastes. The complex aesthetic and designs made of lots of moving parts aren't for everyone, and the more monstrous, beast-like designs of the Decepticons (Starscream looking like a vulture, Mohawk looking like a lizard, Devastator being ape-like, etc.) are often a major departure from what long-time fans who grew up with the simpler, more humanoid designs from G1 are used to.

    Personally, I enjoy the aesthetic. Bumblebee's muscle-car, hood-becomes-the-chest-and-doors-become-wings look has become more iconic than G1 Bumblebee, and I like the gas mask design of the face, as it does give the impression of the survivor of a centuries-spanning war. The yellow color-scheme and antennae are reminiscent of the original Bumblebee, so the design isn't a complete departure. Optimus Prime (in the first three movies), Jazz, Brawl, Ravage, and Shockwave are superb updates to the original designs, with more modern alt modes and realistic color schemes (except in Shockwave's case, but he has the excuse of not updating to an Earth design). I'm also partial to the more out-there designs of the Constructicons (aside from the infamous Devastator wrecking balls), vulture-like Starscream (it does kind of fit his character), TLK Megatron (the best aspects of the Movie Megatron design with the iconic arm cannon and a more helmet-like design), and a variety of others.

    However, some designs don't work, even for me. Mohawk, Wheelie, Brains, and the kitchen-bots are cases where I feel the more out-there designs work against the characters. Hound (don't hate the character or any of his toys, though), Knight Optimus, and Galvatron don't even look like they can transform. The Fallen (and ROTF's ancient Primes) look pathetically thin and weak. Skids and Mudflap... yeah.... I don't want to start a huge argument, but in terms of design alone they come across as very blatant and uncomfortable...

    In the end, it comes down to whether you like the aesthetic and how well you think each design is implemented. Personally, I feel the closer to real life the Transformers are, the more complex they have to be. That's why I think the designs work for the 3D world of Prime better than, say, the 2D designs of G1 and Animated, just as the 3D designs of Prime would be hard to capture in 2D. G1 Optimus looks impressive in 2D animation, but compared to his Movie Trilogy counterpart, I don't think he'd look quite as impressive in the world of live-action. That's my opinion, anyway.
     
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  5. AutobotAvalanche

    AutobotAvalanche Number One in Boogieland Moderator

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    @ Everyone but the OP, you've misunderstood. NGW isn't saying you can't dislike them, but rather that they aren't objectively bad as many people claim.
     
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  6. Venixion

    Venixion Member of the notorious Pew-Pew Posse

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    Ahh, I personally love the kitchen bots and the vending machine. :D  Unique and hilarious and I'd sooo buy toys of them, had they been made.
     
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  7. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    They are complex, too complex for toys some feel.

    And controversial with a lot of creative decisions that are a source of endless debate. Examples include Ratchet as a lime-green ambulance, Devastator in different colors, and of course the strerotyping design of various characters (the Twins, Drift, Hound, etc).

    I myself can only really complain about the designs are from AOE onwards, when it seemed their quality had decreased. But that's a debate for another thread.
     
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  8. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime System Pride

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    It's not about not being what we remembered as kids... well except the geewhinners but they're a minority... the majority of us just want the characters to be some what recognizable which Optimus Prime, Sound wave, and Shockwave are but they're the only ones. If there were more designs like those three people might not hate on them as much.

    The other big issues are caused by how freaking complex the movie designs are. According to the creators they made the designs this way in order to make them more realistic for live action but they actually are LESS realistic. Sure the old cartoons had mass shifting but the movie transformers have phase shifting which is the only realistic way they can have thousands of moving parts without being easily killed by throwing a rock at them mid transformation. With that many moving parts if even one small thing gets knocked out of alignment everything would get jammed up and the transformation wouldn't work.

    Thanks to those complex transformations the vehicle modes end up looking like they been in a car accident. If you look at the vehicle modes from any other transformers toy line most of the panel lines are lines that you would already expect to find, doors, hood, trunk, there's nothing that makes it stand out except maybe seeing a folded up robot inside if it has translucent windows. Movie Transformers however tend to always have extra panel lines that shouldn't be there, that make it obvious it transforms into a robot... except Barricade he was actually one of the better movie toys but most of them look like shit because the smooth surfaces you expect to find are covered in cracks. Aside from making the toys look like shit this also causes the robot modes in the films to look like they can't transform because a lot of the time the majority of the vehicle modes aren't even present in robot mode. All Bumblebee really has is the front of the car on his chest, door wings, tires, and a licence plate which ends up in a spot on the robot that it can't even physically go during transformation. 90% of the car's body from the hood to the rear of the vehicle just disappears. And he's not even one of the worst offenders, there are others with ZERO kibble visible in robot mode who look just like generic robots not intended to be Transformers.

    The last issue is regarding the Transformers armor. Thanks to those complex transformations they end up with robot modes that have lots of exposed weak points. Transformers in any other series actually look solid which makes them look like they could belivably take damage without being instantly killed by literally anything. They don't need to look like bricks but they need to at least cover their weak points. They look like C-3P0 in Star Wars episode 1 with all the exposed wires when they should look like they have some kind of protective armor. It's like trying to convince girl gamers that a metal bra is just as good as the male armor that actually covered the entire torso. The movie Transformers, look weak as hell because there is far too much exposed parts... I will give them credit however that this problem has actually been addressed and fixed in later movies. The Knight version of Optimus even though he has boobs now for some reason does look more solid than his first movie design. Megatron too, his first three incarnations looked almost skeletal with lots of exposed gaps in the armor but his last two incarnations have actually been more solid looking. If it wasn't for that ugly face I'd actually like Last Knight Megatron. That's seriously the best he's ever looked in a live action film. Galvatron still had the problem I mentioned above where there is ZERO sign that it even transforms plus they made his transformation far worse than in any other movie.

    I will never understand how anyone can defend these things as being good. Sure there are some who have some good aspects but the vast majority break every single rule of how a Transformer is suppose to look and function.

    All I want from a live action Transformers design is for the characters to be recognizable as Transformers not look like generic robots from entirely different franchises. Which some of them literally are, Bay even admitted to using a character model from Terminator Salvation in RotF. Is it too much to ask that Transformers should actually look like they can transform?
     
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  9. NGW

    NGW Rawr

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    Pretty much, yeah. They aren't going to tickle everyone's fancy, but they're solid designs with a ton of work and thought put into them, lots of character (especially as the series went on), and they're just...cool. I like giant, badass robots so I personally love them.

    A lot of the complaints, especially the ones about lack of color or everyone looking like a pile of metal hittinh an indistinguishable, identical pile of metal are just plain false.
     
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  10. maltesefalcon

    maltesefalcon stuff dreams are made of

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    theres less individuality in them

    I compare them to humanoid magnets that walked through a scrapyard when im annoyed but its actually more similar to the original movie x-men suits all black leather with no distinguishing designs.
    now x-men was easier to tell what was going on but without the bright colours and especially with the bad camera work in the first film its hard to tell whos fighting who (except prime and bee who were my fave designs)

    I thought with age of extinction we would start to see more stylised individuals as I loved drift and hounds designs but the rest have been more of the same
     
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  11. Venixion

    Venixion Member of the notorious Pew-Pew Posse

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    @SaberPrime Said it way better then I did. They aren't recognizable as Transformers at all. Hell, sometimes I'm not even sure what I'm looking at.

    I can't say how the actual quality is on a lot of them, because we only have 2 in this house. The Knights were cool though.

    Erm... I don't recall seeing Knight OP having boobs. Now I hafta go look.

    ETA: I don't think he has boobs.
     
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  12. vatarian

    vatarian Wyrmspawn

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    If you don't think 2007 Starscream is a sex-god fallen to earth, are we even part of the same species?
     
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  13. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II The Pristine

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    Yeah, I love both of Steelbane's modes, but it would be great if Hasbro could do a studio series version of the guy with a much improved transformation. Beause that toy is really shitty because of it, while it could have been so great.
     
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  14. Venixion

    Venixion Member of the notorious Pew-Pew Posse

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    I dunno. Is that supposed to be classified info? And is that info classified on your side or mine? :p 
     
  15. vatarian

    vatarian Wyrmspawn

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    *Seymour Simmons voice*

    Don't TALK to me about CLASSIFIED!
     
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  16. Venixion

    Venixion Member of the notorious Pew-Pew Posse

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    :lol :
     
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  17. Prime Noble

    Prime Noble Well-Known Member

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    Definitely agree with this post.

    Optimus, Jazz and Bumblebee at least had visual cues that they could identify as their G1 selves but why did Ratchet, Ironhide and Starscream to mention a few look so different?

    Drift proves they could have given all of them discernable and emotive faces from the start.

    I don't hate all the designs either. Blackout, Bonecrusher, Last Knight Barricade all looked cool.

    Most of the secondary characters were nicely designed too like Dino, Arcee, Canopy and Stinger.

    Despite my dislike of facial hair on robots, Sentinel Prime is my favourite villain in the movies.

    The snarling, drooling, animalistic Decepticons were too organic looking. I realise they were portrayed like that to make them menacing but the G1 Seekers and Borg drones always made cool generic troopers just by their indifference to humans as they carried out their missions. No snarling needed.

    It's really only a handful of movie designs I don't like but regrettaly they're often the main characters.

    Ironhide
    Frenzy
    Brains
    Wheelie
    Que
    Drift
    Hound
    Skidz
    Mudflap
    Free Trader

    And Brainz, Drift and Ironhide are the only ones whose characters I didn't like.

    It was the voice acting that put me off Lockdown, the Wreckers, Crosshairs and Drift.

    An awful lot of the non featured toys are great like Dirtboss, Wreckage, Incinerator and the Real Gears.

    But as someone already said, the main issue for most people is that they look unrecognisable as Transformers.

    Tim Burton admittedly changed Batman's costume to black body armour and the X Men got black leather uniforms as the multicoloured comic versions wouldn't convey the realism needed for movies but every character was still recognisable and also conveyed their comic book personalities.

    What's the point in making movies of a franchise when they're unrecognisable as the source material?
     
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  18. Fallout

    Fallout a dude he can't lose when lives on love

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    my feelings on the bayverse designs are complicated, but can basically be summed up with "the toys are my favorite aesthetic, but only the humanoid ones, and the actual movie designs themselves aren't great."

    like, even the more grounded ones like optimus do a lot i dislike. his chest windows are weirdly small and the flames are too extravagant. MPM-4 fixes the chest window problem, but obviously not the flames.

    even the more alien-like ones that i should hate, like crowbar and berserker, are improved massively by the toys making them feel like feasible tf designs, with the vehicle parts integrated into limbs and the backs.

    the only movie designs i can't get on-board with in some aspect are usually when they're just taking it too far. like, using the dreads as another example, they work good looking monstrous because it's not their only gimmick, plus they're a trio of hunters. it makes sense. but when EVERY decepticon looks like a totally different species from the autobots it's just jarring. the constructicons really take it too far in particular, with scrunchy-faced jackhammer rampage, overly-large unicycle guy with a different kind of scrunchy face, a shitty hannibal lecter t-rex whose legs just stay as treads...

    but on the opposite end of the spectrum, there's too humanoid, where they're just big metal people. crosshairs, john goodman and steve buscemi robot are the fucking worst for this. why does a robot need a trenchcoat that's literally part of his body? the toy even handled that better, it looks convincingly enough like a trenchcoat without just being a weird pseudo-organic flap like crosshairs' cg model.
     
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  19. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Wields Mjolnir!

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    I'm glad you like them.

    I don't. Nor do I feel the need to explain or justify my problems with them. It's an aesthetic preference. I know people who like Animated's plot and characterization, but hate the aesthetics and designs of them and I don't try to force them to change their feelings on it or argue them on the point.
     
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  20. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime System Pride

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    The toy doesn't which is largely inaccurate but actually makes him look better. The animation model however I think they were trying to go for muscle pecks look but it ends up just looking like he turned into a fembot. Actually there are some actual female transformers who don't have boobs like Prime's. Lol
     
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