Just lamenting the rhetorics of the gender debate, and how people will see what they want to see, and logic be damned. Which I agree with, generally. And because I'm just as pathological as everybody else in here, I still keep broadcasting my opinions in these discussions. zmog
I didn't mean it as she was already crazy. What I was getting at was, he went to overwrite her personality to make her a part of Monstructor, and, be it the fact she was different, or maybe she was too strong willed for him, it didn't take hold, and THAT drove her insane. She was still the victim, she was still modified and changed by an ammoral monster, but what ACTUALLY happened is different than what SHE thought happened. Plus, it explains why she has such homicidal tendencies and a bit more violent and aggressive: she was going to be that way combined with Monstructor, but it didn't work out for some reason, and she ended up having the violent streak, but focused it on the monster that hurt her.
Well... This, with a side order of a polarized argument (since discussion is LONG passed) where the participants steel themselves with a mental "My one preconceived notion is right and every other option is wrong" before engaging in debate.
Don't be absurd. A 'debate' is something you can win or lose, but in the realm of OPINION, nobody can possibly be wrong. Ever. zmog
No I get what you are saying and I agree with 99% of it, wasn't sure what G1Prowl was trying to say. You and I aren't in disagreement except some some semantics and even then its been a perfectly polite discussion so his comment didn't make sense.
Actually, I have to say that generally, the gender discourse on this forum is remarkably civil all around... considering how volatile things get when these topics pop up on almost any other place on the internet! Not that everyone always agrees, or is well-informed, but at least there's a discussion that happens, rather than just personal attacks and witch-hunt rhetorics. Who would have thought? I mean, sure... there's still a lot of rhetoric and repetition, but it's still discussion-centered. Except for those people who come in and are all like "why is this discussion even happening? Just shut up!"... but they're usually passing pundits with nothing constructive to add. In G1Prowl's defense, sometimes when making a point it feels like banging your head against a brick wall of deliberate misinterpretation of the arguments, or a denial of pretty basic realities so it can be frustrating. But I don't think it's that bad at the moment... Yeah, I've thrown that out there before as well... that Arcee is not necessarily a reliable narrator in this instance. Her brain has been operated on, and especially in a post-Roberts, thought-warfare TF fiction, that opens the door to all sorts of misdirection and subjectivity. Which I find a bit more acceptable than "she emanates some kind of weird energy that makes normal TFs suddenly pay inordinate attention to gender stereotypes and pronouns". The pitfall of going in that direction depends on how deeply you want to read Spotlight Arcee as a rape/violation metaphor. By calling into question the victim's version of events, you do fall into a politically dangerous reading. I think that might be willfully reading too far against the grain in that case, and do we really want to continue reading Spotlight Arcee as a (really clumsy, unnecessary) rape metaphor? But of course, outrage often is the result of willfully reading against the grain, so.... zmog
Okay, the quote of his had to do with monogender, and that's what I was responding to. In another one of these discussions I pointed out that the old 70's Cylons weren't inherently male, and still wouldn't be even if they designed a female looking chasis to confuse the Colonials. The bulk of my post in that thread was breezed over in favor of perpetuating the argument. THAT is what I was lamenting in my post which you questioned. Anything else?
It would be simple to make everyone happy. Arcee was always female, even before Jhiaxus. But Cybertronians have no concept of gender even though they already use the pronouns 'he' and 'she'. Jhiaxus saw a difference where no other Cybertronian did. All Jhiaxus did was making Arcee realise she was different to everyone else. Like how Adam and Eve only realised they were naked after eating the apple. Nothing to do with Arcee being a victim of anything. No physical modifications. She just didn't take it well.
One possibility is simply, after Arcee, Jhiaxus made some more/other bots had the procedure done (perhaps... more willingly). They were few in number and may have left during the Nail migration or one of the colony efforts. Could've ended up at Caminus or elsewhere (Scott's indicating Caminus may not be the *only* colony with fembots). I mean, Arcee's 6 million years old. There is room for stuff to happen.
Why does there need to be an unwilling physical procedure done here? I'm trying to move the events away from Arcee being a victim. She would be no more of a "victim" than a kid finding out she's been adopted and that her life has been a lie.
There is the matter that she spent 6 million years trying to get revenge. It's pretty hard to remove at this point. Hmmm.... though one could have it 'Jhiaxus tried a whole bunch of experiments on Arcee. This one worked because it was compatible with Arcee's sparks, but he tried a bunch of other enhancements and variations too. This is also why Arcee is so fast/strong, but Arcee certainly didn't ask for years of experimentation.'
I am more curious to find that Arcee was female on Cybertron but some how I doubt she was the only one. It would be more odd if she was only female from Cybertron.
I think the best way to make everyone happy is to stop. Just, stop. Accept that Arcee's introduction into the IDWverse was daft, problematic and limiting(narrative wise) and just enjoy the good times. . We do not need a reason for female characters to exist. Roberts recently retconned out Nautica's 'female' sparktype and said "there's no fundamental biological difference betwixt hims and hers" further cementing that fact. If anything it implies that a Transformers gender identity is a personal choice.
I had to agree with that decision. It is more of no one is going be happy with any solution. If anything the writers are doing damage control with Arcee.
I'm still hoping they go down the path of Cybetronians having forgotten gender identity at some point, perhaps during the stress of the Great War. Without a biological anchor it would be a lot easier to lose something like that when it is more of a cultural/identity issue. Retconning Arcee so that she was tortured to think she was different when she wasn't could work too.
Think about your old memories- you aren't so much remembering them directly, you're often remembering past times you've remembered them. If something catches on, bots will start assuming that's how it's always was because that is how it's been for the last two million years, and they've unconsciously inserted it further back, for example.
I would make it less saying the 'females' are less recognizable as such on Cybertron and make Arcee less of a fluke. Have some of the populace to be actually more indentify as such just was not a big deal with Cybertronians. I am for making SL Arcee less of impact than it actually is.
