IDW Comics....What Went Wrong?

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by Autovolt 127, Oct 15, 2015.

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  1. GWolfv2

    GWolfv2 Deathsaurus - A name you can trust for peace

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    It's a variation of Stalin (James has basically turned the cons into communists) "One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic".
     
  2. GoLion

    GoLion Banned

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    That's it! Thanks.
     
  3. GWolfv2

    GWolfv2 Deathsaurus - A name you can trust for peace

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    Interesting twist on it too. Stalin used it to justify his mass slaughter, while Getaway is using it to justify the depersonalisation of their feelings for Megs.
     
  4. WilyMech

    WilyMech Well-Known Member

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    The Scavengers are shade of dark grey and then the DJD are completely black.
     
  5. GWolfv2

    GWolfv2 Deathsaurus - A name you can trust for peace

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    It seems risky, especially considering my opinion that evil as people reference here doesn't exist outside of strictly black and white fiction. I don't even think the DJD are "evil". Terrible, awful, probably irredeemable but not evil.
     
  6. ZeroiaSD

    ZeroiaSD Autobot

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    Ehhh... it's much more likely to actually hit close to home for people. People *encounter* that, unlike the others.

    I mean, it'd be better to just let the author know it's uncomfortable making, without the level of vitriol, but it makes a lot of sense why that gets the reaction.
     
  7. GoLion

    GoLion Banned

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    They all make me, and I'd assume most of us uncomfortable. My only problem is the first few should draw those angry responses just as much as the third. It kind of shows how uncaring people are that people are murdered everyday. I guess if people aren't directly involved with it. It's not an issue for them. That's a sad lesson to take away from this.
     
  8. WilyMech

    WilyMech Well-Known Member

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    The real difference between the Scavengers and DJD are resources. Later justifying killing base off the belief of Megatron but the kill to survive. Resources are not to be wasted even the dead.
     
  9. Dead Metal

    Dead Metal Well-Known Member

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    Wow.

    Oh well, my opinion on tumblr and twitter hasn't changed. It just cements it further.

    Roberts should never have given those people much attention and done so much to please them, he has, and now he can't really write the characters and stories the way he wants them to without being demonized by the very people whom he tried to appeal to the most.

    I recently found a site that explains why something is offensive, by the people who are offended. And the list for the disabled offenses contained such gems as "treating a disabled person as if they were normal and not acknowledging their disability" and "noticing a person's disability and not treat them like they could lead a full life".

    I say Roberts should just say "F**k off" and write his stories the way he wants them to and just pull out of social media. Because f**k those people.
     
  10. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    You know, the biggest irony in situations like that is...

    ...so-called "average" and "normal" people get abused in terrible ways all the time, both IRL and in fiction.

    Now, excluding any kind of character from being treated in the same way in-story kinda would be percisely to treat them as precious little snowflakes who are too fragile and different and need to be protected by the author even from the story internal logic.

    And, truth be told, Roberts can be pretty grimdark and cruel to pretty much every character in his stories, not like he's making any exceptions. I think, unless it's mandated by Hasbro and the character is needed by them, nobody gets a preferential treatment under Roberts.

    Was anyone outraged because of the equality reasons when the half of the only gay couple (at this time) in IDWverse got killed?
     
  11. ZeroiaSD

    ZeroiaSD Autobot

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    Eh, people have never worked that way. What one encounters feels more real than what one doesn't.

    Also, everyone is anti murder. Ableism is common and very often ignored.

    Why people get riled up on it makes a lot of sense.
     
  12. johnbonhamatron

    johnbonhamatron Big ol' Nightbeat fanboy

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    As a counterpoint, I'm going to offer a slightly different perspective on the Grimlock scene, as it's one I've not seen mentioned, and I'd argue that being made to feel uncomfortable isn't necessarily a bad thing...

    See, the way Grimlock was in that scene was scarily close to how my nanna was in the months before she passed away (she was convinced I was someone she met during World War II, f'r'instance). On top of that, it hit my one big fear, the thought that I might one day end up like that, and not know who I am.

    As a result, I read that scene, and unashamedly bawled my eyes out. By the very definition of a psychological trigger, it hit me, big time.

    And that was not a bad thing.

    In fact, that made it (for me, with my psychological baggage) the single most powerful moment I've read in a TF comic in, well, ever. So rather than being "problematic", I'd argue that the Grimlock scene was an example of what the art of storytelling is all about.

    Storytelling isn't about making people feel nice, or about making people feel comfortable. It's simply about making people feel, and about letting people experience those emotions in a way detached from any real world trauma, so they can analyse them and grow.

    Basically? Being "triggered" by a story isn't a bug, it's a feature, and we learn and grow the most when we don't run away from it.

    And so I argue that the Grimlock scene is the mark of a storyteller at the top of his game. When Roberts thought up that scene, he had more than a right to use it; he had an obligation as a storyteller and I, for one, am very, very glad he did.

    ETA:
    It wasn't ableist, either. I'd argue, in fact, that the Grimlock scene was anti-ableist; by having that happen to a fan-favourite character, Roberts forced people to feel empathy for real world people in the same situation, by showing it happen to a character they love.
     
  13. Dead Metal

    Dead Metal Well-Known Member

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    No, they were after the fact, because he got killed before their relationship was made 100% clear and wasn't just "maybe they're a couple?".

    I hate these people, I've suffered abuse by the hands of others my whole life, and still I don't go to the internet and act all offended just because of how fictional characters act in fiction.

    These people need to stfu and learn to separate fact from fiction. It's not hard.

    I swear you could make a factual documentary on how a group of people fight for equality, and they would complain about how sexist/ racist/ what ever the creators of the documentary are just because of how the assholes who suppress the minority act towards the minority.
     
  14. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    I love how this somehow still ties back to people having a problem about a comic involving fictional space robots treating a guy who was their worst nightmare for millions of years like shit because he's not exactly 100% in the head anymore and thus not in a position to strike back when they treat him like dirt.
     
  15. hardlurk

    hardlurk Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anybody in this thread believes that Roberts is an ableist or that he is behaving in an ableist way or has written MTMTE in an ableist way. So if you want the real arguments for all that you'll have to read them on tumblr or twitter or wherever. And I don't think it's appropriate to link to those arguments in this thread because that is the very definition of cross-forum drama. So what's the point of creating an echo chamber where everyone talks about how dumb "SJWs" or whatever are?
     
  16. Acteon

    Acteon Overworked

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    I'm still enjoying MTMTE as much as I always have, and although I'm disinterested in not-RID, I don't actually despair of it like I did a year ago.

    The MTMTE fatigue genuinely puzzles me, as if the charisma-leech story is any less daft or intriguing than the Pharma story where people cried themselves to death. The Brainstorm arc was pretty awesome imo, and now we have the Scavengers back in what was, again imo, one of the most fun and intriguing TF stories yet. I can understand, maybe, people not being thrilled with the Swearth story, but I enjoyed it for what it was.

    And the possibilities of the alt Universe are delicious :) 

    Windblade has become an offshoot of not-RID and in doing so lost much of its appeal for me, but we have Sins of the Wreckers on the horizon, so all in I'd say we're I a slightly better position overall than this time last year.

    Just my two penneth.
     
  17. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    What's morality got to do with this?

    again I apologize for this thread.

    Well said GWolf.

    I agree. If I ever meet Roberts, i'll be frank with him and tell them they are a lost cause.
     
  18. Da_Razorsaw

    Da_Razorsaw Highwire ownz j00

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    It's You guys are right. Fiction isn't always meant to make us happy. It's supposed to make us uncomfortable.

    But here's the thing: being made to feel uncomfortable isn't the problem. It's the manner in which that is achieved.

    Grimlock's story is one where he's made out to be simultaneously dangerous and pathetic. The focus is on his abusers and how flawed but sympathetic they are despite the horrific and infantilizing shit they put him through.

    It's not a story about Grimlock. It's a story about the poor put upon Scavengers.

    And yes, they're villains. We know that. But that's ANOTHER problem. The VILLAINS are more important than the disabled person.

    Not to mention there's a difference in the SHEER MAGNITUDE of the stories that are about disabled people being plot devices, characterization points, or about them being abused or without agency. Why the bloody hell do we need another story like this one? Who cares about what happens to Grimlock here and not the charming, put upon anti heroes?

    It's not the fact that the story makes you uncomfortable. In fact, a story like this should make you uncomfortable if it makes you step back and analyze your own behavior TOWARDS people like Grimlock. Because it's wrong and frankly disgusting.

    Instead, it's a story about the Scavengers and how much it hurts poor flawed Misfire to be in this situation. It's uncomfortable because it reminds you what a burden disabled people are and how hard it is to support them. It's ultimately about the pain and struggle of people who have to be around us.

    Do you have ANY idea what it's like to be reduced to that? All the hugging time? In real life as well as fiction?

    And I'm sorry, but Roberts getting maybe a couple dozen people who aren't happy with him isn't sympathetic at all. He hasn't been harassed anywhere NEAR the level that young woman in the Steven Universe fandom has. He doesn't get sympathy points because a portion of the fandom stopped praising his progressiveness 100 % and aren't an echo chamber.

    And yeah, his Twitter game was offensive as hell. He should have apologized and not put the blame on the small number of people who took issue with it, especially when the dozens of people that spoke up to silence them were far more numerous.
     
  19. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    You're kinda falling into a trap of your own perception.

    To me they're not sympathetic at all. I think at this point Roberts gave us enough hints that they're more than just "flawed". The Wreckers are flawed. Lost Lighters are flawed. Scavengers? They're degenerates. They're just not competent/bloodthirsty enough to have a DJD-worthy headcount.

    TBH I half-expect either Grimlock or ForMax going brutal on them. Or half of the Scavengers dying in some graphic way because random reasons.

    And, well... Roberts should never have himself fraternized with so close with tumblr. Lesson learned for the future, I hope.
     
  20. Da_Razorsaw

    Da_Razorsaw Highwire ownz j00

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    If agree with that if I didn't see so many people talking about how sorry they feel for Misfire, or whether the others are justified, and how heartwarming it is that he protects him.

    Those reactions are out there. They're numerous. In fact, people only started playing the "UM BUT THE SCAVENGERS ARE VILLAINS" card when people started taking issue with the story.

    In fact in Roberts stupid Twitter thing:

    https://twitter.com/jroberts332/status/656959825977454592

    Nowhere does he ask anyone to put themselves in Grimlock's shoes. Nowhere does he ask is what people who are in Grimlock's position think.

    You tell me that I'm limited by my own perception but the point of view of disabled people has never factored into stories like this.

    Why would this be any different, when every mentally or psychologically disabled character in this book has either been abusive, violent, monstrous, a plot device, or someone who basically gets better overnight like Rung?

    No offense, but I have to put myself in the shoes of mentally abled people all the time. Your perception is something I have to consider just to survive.
     
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