Sure, TF fiction often humanizes the characters to make them relatable (I always think of Jazz and Blaster because they're almost "urban" bots who enjoy Earth music and pop culture), but as was brought up in a post after yours, the "racism" thing is almost too much like real world issues to see it as anything but a correlation. And that strikes me as weird for TFs. If anything, one would assume the "racism" would be between the factions (some TF series consider the Autobots and Decepticons wholly different races) rather than how a bot was constructed. And speaking of, the only construction method I'm familiar with is a protoform being constructed and then imbued with a spark. That's been the de facto canon since BW, but I guess since IDW decided to end the Autobot-Decepticon conflict (another way the series has declined, because I want to read about their war, not them attempting peace), I guess they have to construct other conflicts to keep things mildly interesting.

 

I read Marvel comic irregular now. I find the characterization uh flat for the most part. My feeling is that Marvel really did not see Transformers as interesting or lasting for 30 years as it did. Making them too alien made it harder for people relate to them. I read it up to the Underbase Saga.

 

Flat. oVery not great 80s. Simons end run has a BIG jump in quality, and a lot of the Marvel UK is not offensive with some good stories, if more bad than good imo.

Earthforce is frikking hilarious though. And made me want a Carnivac.

 

I think once the war is over in all continuities for the Autobot and Decepticon the series has problem of where to go next. It is always the next chapter that is a problem since the main focus was on the war. So you are going have a massive war next issue is how going to rebuild. I am hoping for flesh out roles for the Galactic Council or something new.

 

Yeah, I remember seeing that same tweet and thinking, well hold on, there shouldn't be any obligation for him to respond immediately to what you have to offer as he has a very busy schedule for what he does, and that should be understood. Also to crave attention in such a way for validation is... yeah.

But yes, I think there are definitely people trying to tear him down. And its partially working. Not to say their concerns shouldn't be addressed (which James actually did, unlike most authors out there), but as of late there has been an online culture of people trying to be the next big person to oust a celebrity over a negative thing they did. It's where the whole 'your fave is problematic' thing comes from, but especially as of late people have been really aggressive in their attempts to make these people fall. For example, a few months ago someone tried to call out Chris Pratt for "blackface" because of the tan he got in Jurassic World. Which is ridiculous.

Here it feels like something similar is going on. There's the initial feeling of discomfort over how the Scavengers treat Grimlock (which can be understood as a reaction to a portrayal that was intended to incite gut wrenching), but then there's the wave of people ignoring the explanation that this is just how the characters' act, along with the stream of accusations that the man is ableist-- even though he has made it clear that his intentions weren't to make you sympathize with the cast in this way.

The "harassment" tweet in general feels like something similar to one criticism - God I can't remember their name - one blogger made towards Mad Max: that it was not a feminist movie because the movie contained the presence of rape. Though obviously featuring rape in a movie does not automatically = sexist so long as it is featured as a negative element.

 

G1 Marvel was not as good as some want to remember it being. It has a lot of cases where it's even more blatant as a toy advertisement than the cartoon. The only reason most praise it is "SHOCKWAVE WAS A BADASS" and Furman's run. But pretty bad otherwise.

 

Well, given Marvel Comics - specifically Bob Budinansky - was where literally the founding concepts of the original franchise were solidified, the fact they too existed to sell toys based on the proven GI JOE model (which pioneered almost everything Transformers is known for, actually, I'll dig up some interesting videos on the subject later) shouldn't come as a surprise.

Also the Two Megatrons issue was fucking badass.

 

This is true  

 

It wasn't great, but at least most of the cast was likable.  

 

True! At least they never turned half the Autobots into cold-blooded jerks...  

 

I can't argue this. You're right. For all the alien mentions in the comic there were twice as many that did make the Transformers as human analogs. I'm officially going to back off from that argument. I'm wrong.

 

In a fandom where people get pissed of the bad guys aren't playable video game characters, that argument doesn't hold a lot of water.

 

Do I think fiction can be a... cerebration of what the writer thinks of the human condition? Sure. Is it an actual reflection? I don't know. I think we all see things based on our individual experiences. I guess I need to stop writing with such declaration and write with more of an emphasis on my own weird world view. So while you say fiction is a reflection of US, my response is that we're more complicated than what Roberts - or any writer- thinks up about us. Which leads me to think that what we see in fiction shouldn't be scrutinized in the same way we are critical of a someone's actions.

Cause here's what I thought reading that issue. Whoa. They're actually considering selling Grimlock, Those fictional characters are complete assholes. Not... I can't believe they're considering selling Grimlock. Roberts is a complete asshole.

It's kind of the crux of my argument about the whole Arcee debacle. Jhiaxus was the ass in that situation, Not furman. That guy was just trying to tell a story. But the shit storm Furman got for that is almost like he went out somewhere and chopped some guy up and made everyone start calling that mutilated guy a woman.

Also, and this isn't about this issue, I don't get why people get so mad at each other here. Life truly is too short. Some of you say things I don't get, but I'm not going to think ill of you because of that. To do so would say more about me, and my character, than it ever would about you.

 

Sure it does. People may find a bad guy interesting or fun to play as, but that's completely separate to identifying with them.

 

In a continuity where the Decepticon cause was given some actual meaning, and was incepted to push back against corrupt oppression by it's overreaching senate, I would think identifying with them now is a much more interesting prospect, given a lot of the sociopolitical climate of the modern day.

 

I fail to see how identifying with a genocidal totalitarian regime is an interesting concept.
They're certainly better written than Marvel's moustache-twirling cutouts, but they're still nothing that any person with even a slightest trace of conscience should be identifying.

 

It didn't start out that way, did it?

And yes. They are.

 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions...  

 

I know for sure that harassment isn't the answer, but I don't know if toughening up is the answer either. It's not OK to accept the normalisation of problematic behaviours in media just because it's how it is. This was once normal. My parents would have found it funny. I look at that page and want to be sick. You don't have to think too hard to see what it must have been like protesting against ads like these at the time.

Thing is though, I don't believe there is anything problematic with #45. I'm also disabled and I've lived in countries where disability = the end of your life. For real. You can't walk? Tough shit. You can't go out because there is no lift in your building, no ramps and no sidewalks a wheelchair can access. You can't cross the road, you can't access shops etc etc. Mental disability? Forget it. You're done. Public services can legally refuse to hire you if you've been declared 'insane' at any point in the past. Private business won't know, but if you had to take sick leave you better have a doctor friend that will write you off with 'migraines' and keep it together long enough so they never find out. This is a country in the EU.

#45 isn't insulting. It's harsh + honest and has stirred emotions on either side of the argument, but it's not condoning behaviours nor is it normalising abuse. It's presenting a situation in a very specific setting that's difficult to digest from the safety of our civilised societies, but doesn't actually take place in our societies. It's in a post-war recovery wilderness, with characters that have no experience, no social support, no grasp of right & wrong AND are themselves disabled. It's not gratuitous and it's not ableist. It's good fiction making you uncomfortable. I have honestly tried very hard to see both sides of this argument and am utterly failing. The only problem I can find is that James Roberts may have on this occasion overestimated his audience.

Yes. This, exactly.

 

I think this thread was a mistake.

Great Post is Great.