Ian Failes article on how ILM's transformations have improved over time

Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by Moy, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. marktron

    marktron Well-Known Member

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    EASY... pay designers as the FIRAGE or PERUKILL figures... or 80ers who UPGRADE OUR MIND STUDING MECHATRONIC ENGINEERING ...not G1 One-Step Changers with a Bachelor in Laws and Legislation FAMILY FRIENDLY.
     
  2. megatroptimus

    megatroptimus Prime/Meg/Bee/SS completist

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    Bumblebee had some of the best transformation scenes imo. All clear and in your face. Absolute worst were that transformium crap. An insult to the franchise.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
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  3. ObakaChanTachi

    ObakaChanTachi What’s my age again?

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    ??? I get that you’re trying to make a point but why in spanish???

    What the hell is even going on with this thread
     
  4. imranbecks

    imranbecks Well-Known Member

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    I was motivated by this article to do a stop motion transformation of my Studio Series Bumblebee ;) 

     
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  5. Bumblethumper

    Bumblethumper old misery guts

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    It's not that there's a lack of complexity to the transformations, they are far from one-step changers. It's that they think the complexity of parts spinning around is enough to distract us from some rather blatant mass-shifting and parts that disappear once they are off screen, obscured from camera, out of sight. Transforming should be a mechanical rearranging of component parts, not a magic power.

    It takes creativity, it takes skill, it's not easy, but there's enough examples to show it's doable and the end result will be that much more satisfying.

    I'd like to see some 3rd parties tackle Bumblebee if Hasbro won't redo their figures. The MP leaves too much room for improvement.
     
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  6. Spaceman1251

    Spaceman1251 Legendary Warrior

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    I figured since Travis Knight is supposed to be some kinda stop motion expert, that he would've at least studied stop motion videos of Transformers toys transforming to give us a better style of transformation sequences, instead of the black hole sucking in everything for Bee that we got.
     
  7. Smasher

    Smasher HUNKY BEATS

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    The first Bay movie at least focused on the transformations. It was nice to see some of the ways they transformed. I remember Prime transforming on the highway at full speed, tearing up the pavement.
    Starscream's transforming and vaulting onto the dam was pretty cool, too.
    Then the fact that they could transform seemed to just be used to go from one place to another, they would either transform off screen (mostly) or they would be in the background.
    And I agree, the Transformium changes were just awful.
    I remember being in the theater saying aloud "Why?"

    Travis Knight is not supposed to be "some kinda stop motion expert".
    He worked on four stop motion films prior to Bumblebee.
    That literally qualifies him as a stop motion expert.

    And I'm not denying that there are aspects of Bumblebee's transformation that "cheat".
    But there is no "black hole sucking in everything for Bee".
    He transforms on screen several times while the camera is focused on him.

    I loved it.
    I'll take this technique over the Bay transformations where the vehicles explode into a million connected fragments that somehow form an overly complex robot design that is instantly recognizable as a Bay Transformer but not really identifiable from any other Bay Transformer, transformations where the vehicle turns into cubes that fly into the air and then turn into a robot, or transformations that happen off camera.
     
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  8. Spaceman1251

    Spaceman1251 Legendary Warrior

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    Yeah, I know what you’re saying. It’s just, you would think a stop
    motion expert would’ve revolutionized the transformations, being that they’re a stop motion expert. That’s why I said “supposed.”
     
  9. Moy

    Moy Constructicons!

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    That's not his expertise. That belongs to the animators innovation.
     
  10. justframbo

    justframbo Well-Known Member

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    Ok... looking frame-by-frame on some of the transformations... some of the parts just float.. :mad: 

    Hm... come to think of it, my main problem with these transformations is that they're too fluid. If you compare these with, say, the 2007 set, a thing you'll notice is that everything feels a bit more rigid - parts or even entire segments wobble with the main structures, bounce back slightly, and generally just don't move smoothly. (Granted, I think I heard that BB was on a smaller budget... was it?)
     
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  11. justframbo

    justframbo Well-Known Member

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    (sorry, just joined.. I don't know how the quoting thing works >:/ )
     
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  12. Prime Aspect

    Prime Aspect Visual Synthesis Engineer

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    I disagree. The transformations in the first 3 movies were pretty cool and cheated a lot less than those in 4-5 or BB. I still feel that the Bay designs of the first 3 were much more "realistic" as to what giant alien robots would look like, increasing amounts of robot facial hair aside...

    But Transformium was just a cheap budget hack.
     
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  13. Galvatross

    Galvatross Make TFW2005 Shrektastic Again! Veteran

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    I can understand Transformium not being someone's thing, but I don't get the absolute hatred for Transformium. I genuinely think it's awesome and one of the best ideas in the history of the brand, as it actually solves some problems with the very nature of Transformers, transformations, and alternate modes.

    Transformium is a GREAT concept.

    More Transformium and cube transformations, please! Let the KSI cube transformations of Transformers 4 fill this fandom with their programmable, metallic love.
     
  14. Dinobot Snarl

    Dinobot Snarl Well-Known Member

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    I'm scared.
     
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  15. Galvatross

    Galvatross Make TFW2005 Shrektastic Again! Veteran

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    Never be afraid of a differing opinion my fellow fan!
     
  16. marktron

    marktron Well-Known Member

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    because #TeHaceFaltaVerMásMecatrónica
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Ra88

    Ra88 Dutchman!

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    I don't mind that they cheat in this movie. They've always cheated in these. I more so wish they would have them be more believable again. I love Bumblebee's design, but when it comes down to it, it's the same level of bullshit as the AoE and TLK transformations. Same with Dropkick and Shatter. The only genuinely good one was Blitzwing, where you can actually tell where everything goes. His wings even do the MP Seeker flip!
     
  18. Smasher

    Smasher HUNKY BEATS

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    I don't have a problem with the concept behind Transformium, but the way the idea was executed in AoE was terrible.

    First the name, Transformium, is terrible. I previously thought Unobtanium was the worst named Macguffin.

    Second, Transformium was just "discovered" in the fourth movie?
    There were years worth of exposure to Transformers by that point, not to mention outright cooperation between the humans and the Autobots.

    Third, it's presented as the magic component of Transformers technology but Transformium itself doesn't behave like the Transformers do.
    Instead of it being presented as a way for the metal of the Transformers to split, bend, recombine, shrink and expand, Transformium in the lab just turns into anything.
    Why can't Transformers float in the air and turn into plastic headphones, a Glock, and a plush My Little Pony?
    Transformium can? The Transformers are made out of Transformium so why can't they?

    Finally, the movie can't figure out how being made directly from Transformium affects Transformers.
    The first time we encounter the KSI Transformium Decepticons they seem immortal.
    Every time they take damage the damaged parts turn into cubes and repair themselves.

    After that they still transform by turning into cubes, but they don't heal.
    In fact, they seem even weaker. Most of them are dispatched by a single shot.
     
  19. Galvatross

    Galvatross Make TFW2005 Shrektastic Again! Veteran

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    Well, to address your points...

    First, Transformium isn't really any worse than Unobtanium as a name. It's really not any worse than most of the names for the Transformers themselves.

    Second, if you watch the fourth movie, Joshua Joyce mentions how Transformium HAD been previously discovered, but it's only in recent years with Transformer incursions in modern times when they realized it was what Cybertronians were made of. Plus, it was through the work of the imprisoned Brains that information was downloaded from the likes of Megatron, Sentinel, and perhaps other dead Decepticons, and Megatron himself fed the humans the science they needed to build their own Transformers, so he would have a new body and new troops. Besides, the Autobots themselves didn't seem to know much of their ancient history and origins; they didn't know about where the Allspark came, nor about the Fallen until RotF, nor about the existence of the Creators it seems until AFTER Lockdown captured Prime.

    Consequently, I wouldn't expect the Autobots to teach humans all about Transformium even if they did know about it, especially given, even as allies with the US military in RotF, Optimus wouldn't share Cybertronian technology with the humans, because he thought it would do great harm. Well, what happens when KSI wants to build their own robots, and Megatron feeds KSI the information on how to make their own Transformers? Exactly.

    Third, Transformers transform into what they are programmed to transform into OR whatever alt mode they happen to scan. We have seen Transformers capable of transforming into watches, stereos, human females, and so on. The KSI Decepticons were programmed to transform into vehicles and NOT My Little Pony dolls or headphones. They wouldn't transform into things they weren't programmed to transform into.

    Fourth, the first time we see the KSI Transformium transformations is with Galvatron during his pursuit of Prime and the Autobots, and Galvatron is a sentient, sapient being. Galvatron is shown to use the transformations intelligently, because he is intelligent. On the other hand, all KSI transformations we see used in Hong Kong are the other prototypes, who are not sentient and sapient. Consequently, I wouldn't expect them to be as skillful as Galvatron is at using the cube transformations.

    Furthermore, nowhere is it implied, either visually or in an expository manner, that the KSI Transformers can heal any more than regular Cybertronians. It's true Galvatron uses his transformation to break up as Bumblebee attacks him, but nowhere is it implied that they heal themselves in such a manner. That's just how they transform. On the contrary, a KSI Transformers who has its "brain" circuitry blown out is no different than blowing out the circuitry of a non-Transformium robot: Non-functional. They're still machines.

    Finally, the KSI Decepticons besides Galvatron not being up to par with normal Cybertronians was actually the point, because the humans in their hubris merely thought they were creating superior robots, when in the grand scheme of things they were cheap knock offs. And I don't think the humans would be able to replicate the complex mechanical transformations of Bayverse Cybertronians in a few short years, therefore the cube transformations actually make sense. Nobody is saying it's real world realistic, but it absolutely follows some logic and even solves many problems with scanning, alt modes, and transformations in-universe.

    So yeah, I think Transformium in Age of Extinction was fine. My biggest criticism is that we don't see more of it The Last Knight, as I would have loved to have seen Galvatron use his abilities one more time.

    Personally, since Galvatron has often been a Herald of Unicron, and Unicron represents chaos, I would love it if some future versions of Galvatron, Cyclonus, Scourge, etc. likewise had chaotic transformations where they break up in a manner similar to the KSI Decepticons. Except instead of metal cubes, I'd give them a more Earthy and infernal transformation scheme given Unicron's planetary nature. Something like that could be really awesome!
     
  20. Smasher

    Smasher HUNKY BEATS

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    Before I take on your points I want to say that I don't think your opinion means you're stupid or something less than a "true fan".
    That may not make sense in the context of this discussion, but on another part of the internet at this very moment I'm engaged in a similar discussion of another SciFi property and some people are saying that those with different opinions "don't understand the complex themes" or are not "true fans".
    I just want to make sure that I do not come across that way.
    Not now. Not ever.

    I have a lot of respect for you linking things together and coming up with plausible explanations.
    When I was younger my imagination constantly pieced together things that didn't quite fit in comics, cartoons, and sometimes movies.

    That makes sense.

    I think this is among the biggest flaws in Bay's version of the franchise.
    There was always some major historical era in Earth's history (or in AoE's case, prehistory) in which the Transformers are involved -and yet none of the main cast of Transformers is ever aware of it.
    I thought it was quite interesting to find out in the first movie that Megatron and the Allspark had been on Earth for over a century, but five films of "Transformers were here for [insert historical context] and no one knew" is four films too many.

    Again, that makes sense.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that the Transformers seem to turn into something remotely metal -something that's a machine.
    If the floating Transformium in the KSI labs can turn into plastic, metal, and a fuzzy plush toy why can't the Transformers?
    Even Alice seemed to be a robot hidden in a machine-like flesh disguise.
    The flesh turned into compartments and revealed the robot parts beneath.
    The Transformium turns into dust as plastic and reforms as metal.

    Stop making sense. :) 

    I think this is the problem with Bay's storytelling.
    Everything and anything is implied.
    Things are explicitly stated -then redacted.

    The first time we see Galvatron come online he is sort of materializing as cubes constructing a truck.
    Then Bumblbee shoots him and appears to score a direct hit.
    Galvatron disassembles into cubes, flies past Bee, and reassembles without a scratch.

    A better director might not have made that confusing.
    I'm not the only one who thought Galvatron could heal.

    Spot on.

    But did we see it again?
    Bumblebee didn't turn into cubes, but he did get blown and later ripped apart and he just reformed.
    He actually seemed immortal in The Last Knight.
    While it was never even discussed in the movie, for me, it supported my theory that the KSI bots could heal.

    It would have been awesome. And TLK even had Unicron in it.
    Definitely a missed opportunity.
     
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