Ian Failes article on how ILM's transformations have improved over time

Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by Moy, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. Diecast G2

    Diecast G2 Transtectorless

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    I'm not claiming Bumblebee isn't a large improvement as a movie. I'm just also fully aware of the kind of people that populate our fandom. There is a very vocal percentage of us that is wholely sustained as a human being by the mere image of Optimus as a cab-over semi.
    (I never said a majority of the praise, BTW.)
     
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  2. Rob

    Rob Prowl Fan

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    Oh it’s so much more than just G1 stuff it is a very entertaining movie as well.
     
  3. MattDallas

    MattDallas Well-Known Member

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    I forgot how rubbish the dialogue was too!
     
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  4. Jazz of Staniz

    Jazz of Staniz Currently in one piece

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    I mean that’s a really large amount of the praise I’ve seen... “yes Optimus looks like G1!!!!!” “Yes Bumblebee is a beetle!!!” “Now it’s actually good!” “This proves that Michael Bay was wrong about the designs!” I like seeing characters’ different looks; when I first discovered Transformers in 07, I watched every series I could find, including the Unicron Trilogy, Animated, and G1, so I was used to seeing Megatron and Optimus look different with each continuity. It’s always kinda annoying to see people only push for one look (almost always G1) and decide how good a film/show is based on that alone.
     
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  5. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    I dunno I thought Optimus Prime’s first line being “I’LL KILL YOU!!” While speaking to a group on unarmed civilians was pretty great in-character dialogue.

    Then you really haven’t seen much praise. Every single review, both by fans and non-fans that I’ve seen has given the G1 designs a mention but mostly focussed on all the other aspects of the film.

    I worry that its just a very easy target for Bayverse defenders to go for. Something like “You guys only like it because you’re Geewunners!” when that’s not actually true at all. The G1 designs were all pretty great, but they were a mere drop in a pool of vast improvements over the previous movies.

    But I do find it a little odd that one of the things you criticise is people pointing out that Michael Bay was wrong. In fact he demonstratively was, as he did in fact say that the G1 character designs wouldn’t work in live action. Blitzwing and Optimus Prime prove conclusively that they do.
     
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  6. Chainlink

    Chainlink No real than you are

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    Interesting read. I can always applaud creative innovation, and learning what they did to achieve a transformation is quite impressive.

    Still, there were still some crap transformations in the movie. I distinctly remember one where Bee transforms (I think he was on the beach?) and, like, everything got sucked into his body only to pop back out. Doors, mainly, I noticed. I don't mind cheating, especially when 90% of the robot is ambiguous metal panels. But when you clearly have doors on the robot's back, make an effort to have them move into position during the transformation. Like I said, cheating's fine so long as the obvious car "chunks" move where they're supposed to go.

    That being said, I think what this movie did with the transforming ability was a vast, vast improvement over the Bay movies. It was great seeing Bee kinda smush around and "half-transform" during the car chase, and actually utilizing transformation during the fight in an effective manner was quite a sight.
     
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  7. MattDallas

    MattDallas Well-Known Member

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    All this talk of Bumblebeeee (in Bumbleblebee) looking more like his G1 self is something I don't see. I love this re-design, I really do - he is cuter, easier on the eye, emotive etc. but apart from being a VW beetle he is still more like his Bayformer design than he is G1.
    His transformation is pretty much backwards compared to the original.
     
  8. AOEGalvatronRox

    AOEGalvatronRox Collector

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    So are people just not allowed to criticise the Bumbkebee movie simply because the previous films happened or...? I loved the movie, but my one major gripe was that they cheated with the transformations.
     
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  9. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    That's cool to hear about the rigging tool that allows the animators to work the transformations. Even though the transformations were cheaty as fuck in Bumblebee, the actual animation and movement was fluid as hell. Plus there was more of them, which was probably an added benefit from that TFM tool. (verses previous films where transformations were sparse at times)

    I think the idea is he evokes his G1 self rather than being a near 1:1 like, say, Optimus. He's got the proportions and chubbiness of G1 Bee, right down to the big feet and almost barrel-shaped upper body. The inspiration is there, just not nearly as on the nose as the other characters.
     
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  10. VortexPrime

    VortexPrime Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't bothered by the cheating transformations, I really was never bothered by them even in previous movies like the infamous grill and windows on Evasion Prime in Aoe, the only things that really grinded my gears were the things like Megatron wheel in Dotm when he sits on the Lincoln monument or the panels on the front of Bumblebee when the jumps with Sam in slow motion.

    Still I found the various different transformations (or semi-transformations at times) in Bumblebee very well done and charming.
     
  11. Jazz of Staniz

    Jazz of Staniz Currently in one piece

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    Hey, I’m a fan of G1; it just gets irritating to hear so much insult for the movies when G1 had just as many problems. I like movie designs and some G1 designs. It depends whose look fits the character. Jazz looks better in the movieverse, Megatron works better as a Cybertronian Jet or tank than a gun. I like 07 and 84 and BB Optimus. I like G1 Galvatron. But none of them is technically better. Each have occasionally poor writing and continuity that contradicts itself. But so many present their opinions as fact to insist that G1 was better. They’re both good.
     
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  12. CobraKai

    CobraKai Well-Known Member

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    I feel the same way. I felt the film had its moments, including moments that were influenced by Bay’s 07 movie, but overall, it was just an ok movie. But if that Cybertron scene, speaking of crappy cgi, didn’t happen, this movie would have been a near total loss.
     
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  13. Requiem Prime

    Requiem Prime Well-Known Member

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    Nice read. As much as I dig Knight Prime and Megs, you can tell their transformations were loaded cheats to make it work. All of them were to some extent (least of which the first movie?), but it was getting pretty blatant. That said, the only time they really broke the camel's back was in with transformium moving like in-universe Kreo. The rest of the time it was still a sense of discreet parts moving around that worked if you didn't squint too hard.
     
  14. MINDVVIPE

    MINDVVIPE "The powers of darkness..."

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    That sounds like a strawman. Anyone can cite random people saying this or that. Those handful don't collectively speak for anyone else and unless you or anyone is going to do or point to a study done where all reactions are counted and summed up, all of this boils down to what you FEEL fans are collectively saying,and then randomly attributing other factors like that they are the same as other people in that they only want to see specifically G1 designs.

    News flash. Not a single character shown was actually G1. Seen masterpiece figures? Those actually try to be G1. These are totally unique designs that take cues from G1 and by extension a huge amount of other TF media that also incorporate the general cues , I.e. shockwave is purple, has a gun arm, and a cyclops eye. He is more IDW if anything rather than G1.

    Also, you say you enjoy different designs but then also complain when we, technically, get the very first live action designs that actually look closer to the vast majority of TF lore's representation of the characters. I know shows like Armada and RID or whatever might have used different designs but those also tend to exist on the more experimental side of taking old characters and reinventing them.

    Long story short, if you want anyone to stop complaining about the bay movies being different and having that creatively new approach, you can't come back around and say your tired of this look when it really isn't quite exactly anything like what we have gotten before, as in they really are brand new designs as well. If you have a problem with characters not constantly looking NOTHING or very little like they ever did before in any media, then you have a very odd preference for TF media as a whole. Characters are generally supposed to look iconic in at least some ways, and it seems you want as little of that iconic look translated over into each new media, if one were to take your complaint seriously.

    I'll throw this other one out there as well because so many said this when people criticized the bay movies.
    Hey... you know those bay movies that were made? They still exist. No one is taking those away from you. No one is destroying your past/childhood.
     
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  15. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    I actually think the movie would've been stronger overall without the Cybertron scenes. They kind of derailed the tone and made the opening kinda cheesy, despite how much the TF in my loved the character designs and voices. :x
     
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  16. CobraKai

    CobraKai Well-Known Member

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    I can see your point. I think it is jarring how different in tone and style the Cybertron scene was. I think that’s why people want an all Cybertron movie, myself included.
     
  17. savio-prime

    savio-prime Autobotist

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    There were definite transformation cheats in the Bumblebee movie; especially the triple changers, but I think they were done in very complimentary ways for the most part.

    I was a bit more bothered by Bumblebee's arm coming out from his rear in one scene (I guess it was him being "playful" in one sense), only to come out of the passenger side in another scene (practical in that sense). It gave me the impression his arms can just pop out of just about anywhere.

    I loved the partial transformations a lot. I thought that was very effective and provided more insight into the qualities of the character. It would be cool to have Bee bot rolling around on his hind wheels...
     
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  18. savio-prime

    savio-prime Autobotist

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    I found it fitting, because to me it shows two different realities of Bee's situation and how he learns to adapt from where he's come from to where he is going.
     
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  19. CobraKai

    CobraKai Well-Known Member

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    Too bad I can’t like this post twice!

    I remember taking my G1 Wheeljack, then only known as Wheeljack, to Kindergarten. After Bay made Transformers, it brought those memories back and made me hunt for toys again. He brought my childhood back and made new childhoods for kids at the same time.
     
  20. Shatterkick

    Shatterkick TFW2005 Supporter

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    Oh that was completely silly, mostly because the aircraft parts were literally added onto the car-only robot modes rather than replacing some of the car parts. Don't suppose there was another way off doing it other than making Shatter"s wings and Dropkick's rotor part of the underlying robot modes, just more Cybertronian before they scanned the flight modes.

    Saying that, car formers generally acquire a lot of mass when transforming into robot mode, somehow filling in all the car's internal space and replacing the upholstery.
     
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