I wish they had planned out Combiner Wars for more repaint/remold potential

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by RavageX-9, Oct 19, 2019.

  1. RavageX-9

    RavageX-9 I don't know

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Posts:
    519
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +98
    Ebay:
    I remember years ago Hasbro said at one BotCon that they wanted to better plan out repaints/remolds in the future, but Combiner Wars has turned out to be such a mess in this regard.
    (
    We still end up with a mess of LioKaiser, Blast Off getting a NA release very late, Computron being very different all over, and the seacons being high priced exclusives with Snaptrap being a bit of a messy remold. We have strange things like a vague shot at Autobot version of Stunticons, Starscream as a torso and no complete set of seeker limbs despite getting remolds for both regular and conehead seekers with ghost Starscream and Armada Thrust, a Cyclonus/Galvatron torso, and that strange pre-Computron Scattorshot.
    )


    For Combiner Wars they could have...
    altered some of the figures to be better homages for things like RID flipchangers & spychangers/gobots while simultaneously making better autobot versions of the stunticons. If only those car hoods could form robot chests.
    They could have better set up a proper 6 man LioKaiser, and then re-used that engineering of 2 smaller figures for the torso for micromaster gestalts. SO MANY micromaster gestalts!
    If Takara Lightspeed had been more accurate to the original with his feet coming from the other end of the vehicle, they could have also made Wheeljack the same way. That really baffled me. I mean I guess they're both alright, but with the little time I played around with Takara Lightspeed, I didn't see any reason why the alt mode couldn't have been turned around.

    With the Seacons keeping the line alive, I'm still expecting Takara to one day do a proper LioKaiser.

    So why haven't they planned better?
    Maybe the cost of planning these out in advance means that when a line fails, all those plans get thrown out. Though what's the lost cost of that? Paying for remolded heads to be part of the sprues?
    and the fans are only willing to pay premium exclusive prices for some characters and for so many figures at a time, so not all of those repaint/remold options can be offloaded into exclusives. Though I haven't counted to compare how that's changed, it sure FEELS like there's more exclusives now than there used to be!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. DocSeth81

    DocSeth81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Posts:
    9,590
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Location:
    Long Island
    Likes:
    +18,880
    Ebay:
    remember, until recently, Hasbro and Takara weren't linked. Since POTP (I think) all of Takara's releases were identical to Hasbro's. The Seacons are not a continuation of Combiner Wars or POTP, they are a selects release. They count the same as Arctic Megatron and Greenlight and Aragon. CW was the first line where they were really going above and beyond to make retools and repaints. Think about it, Swindle, a jeep, was retooled from a Rook APC. This was them just dipping their toes in the water and trying out new stuff. It proved to be successful so they went even further with Titans Return. Yes, they could've modified their forced combiner limbs more, but they were first learning at this point. Before that, most of the time that they redecoed a figure, the biggest change was a head, virtually no new parts. and the concept of shared engineering never happened. If Hasbro wants to keep costs lower for the consumers, they have to utilize the molds as much as they can. We're just lucky now that they change up more parts.

    Liokaiser wasn't a mainline release, he was an exclusive. Same with CW Computron.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. StrifeZ

    StrifeZ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2007
    Posts:
    1,571
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Likes:
    +2,765
    Ebay:
    Because Hasbro hadn't quite figured out at that point what they wanted to do with the Generations line as the 2010s went on.

    Combiner Wars was still very much of the Thrilling 30, Classics 3.0 / Universe model of "updated and inspired by G1". We got combiners we never thought we'd ever get before, but also some in nearly unrecognizable forms (particularly Defensor and Bruticus). They were great and are still great, but very much in the mold of what we got over the few years prior, by which I mean take a look at Generations Trailcutter or Fall of Cybertron Grimlock. They're supposed to be a "reimagined" G1 character. But that itself was a big step forward for Hasbro, which only did Generations from 2006 until 2012 as an movie off year / filler line thing. In fact, the only reason Titan class Devastator was done the way it was, rather than follow the similarly "updated and reimagined" apprach, is because Takara's designers decided to double-dip and make it scale with Masterpiece and be a serviceable quasi-MP friendly Devastator... not part of Masterpiece, but it won't look wrong if you stick it with them. Combiner Wars didn't give it self to the natural mold repaint/redecos the way the later lines did as a result.

    But they saw how popular CW was. And how hungry people were for more "real" G1 reborn. So they took a big step forward with that in Titans Return. Some molds were similarly in their "updated and reimagined" form (Galvatron). But lots were slavish to the G1 designs, and even the transformation scheme. Most notable is Trypticon, which is something unthinkable to exist just a few years prior.

    Power of the Primes was a short-ish line that largely existed as a bridge to the future (WFC:S). It takes about 2 years for a Transformers line to go from concept to retail. PotP is the most directly inspired by the success of Combiner Wars as it was being planned while CW was on the shelves. It is very much "CW 2.0" while covering some concepts that didn't fit in elsewhere. But by that point Hasbro thought very hard how how to get more characters out of its molds, which is how we got the Terrorcons from the Dinobots, and both being very, very G1 inspired. And now with WFC:S and Earthrise, they're taking it even further.

    This is why I think it's very, very likely Hasbro will revisit some of the CW combiners or just individual transformers in the next few years. Particularly Hot Spot, Onslaught, and Motormaster. Some could just see a fundamental "much more G1 on Earth' revisit, especially since forming mini-bases was part of the original scramble city play model for combiner cores.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Aimless Misfire

    Aimless Misfire IT'S A RIP-OFF!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Posts:
    2,053
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Likes:
    +3,475
    I wish they made all the figures available instead of that Botcon & Collector Club bullshit. I have no hope of ever completing my collection. So what's the point? What good are exclusives if only a small percentage of the fandom actually get to enjoy them?

    And before you say "you had a chance to order them at the time" No! I didn't. I don't have that much money to play with. I don't have the bottomless pockets to just order everything I want like most of you seem to.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  5. Dinobot Snarl

    Dinobot Snarl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Posts:
    9,019
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +16,469
    I'm not excited for more combiners until they Redo the foot /hand Attachment joints. 5mm pegs are just not good enough. They need to lock in somehow.

    Also I would like to see other Combiner types 2 bot and 3 bot combiners tend to be quite neat.
     
  6. MWG

    MWG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Posts:
    1,785
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +406
    Which characters did the Club have as exclusives that were so vital to you? The only semi-important combining characters they had were Ratchet and maybe Bluestreak(?) and those were only interesting if you really cared about the Autobot car combiner sets, which were really just opportunistic repaints of existing limb designs anyhow. I guess they had that Thunder Mayhem thing, but personally I had little interest in combining versions of those characters. Most of the exclusives the Club has done have been superfluous alt universe characters, or if they did do a character from an important continuity Hasbro provided a better version within a couple years at regular retail (thinking Kup & Scourge mainly...).

    +-MWG-+
     
  7. waflhaus91

    waflhaus91 Co-wisest person at TFW, as proclaimed by barry. TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2018
    Posts:
    2,118
    Trophy Points:
    242
    Location:
    Ohio
    Likes:
    +7,233
    Ebay:
    Twitter:
    Tumblr:
    I don't want new combiners unless they come with ACTUAL HANDS/FEET. The HFG's are terrible.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. PlanckEpoch

    PlanckEpoch Just a regular old plumbus

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
    Posts:
    10,178
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Likes:
    +5,034
    Instagram:
    YouTube:
    I'll be that guy and say that I don't want the OG lineup again if they're just gonna replace guys in the line up with literal greenhorn nobodies. I don't give a single damn about the justification, I don't want them. I mean if they come out later as optional guys sure but a team needs to release at retail with the OG line up otherwise I don't buy.
     
  9. AutobotAvalanche

    AutobotAvalanche Number One in Boogieland Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Posts:
    12,121
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Location:
    California
    Likes:
    +26,793
    You're acting like those figures were made for Combiner Wars and then set aside for the Club. They weren't. FunPub used their relationship/agreement with Hasbro to get use of those molds to make characters Hasbro had no plans on doing. That's always how the Botcon exclusives have worked for the most part.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. Electro Rush

    Electro Rush Just a guy waiting for the perfect Whirl

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Posts:
    9,271
    Trophy Points:
    282
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    Likes:
    +6,917
    I think I'm in the minority that wanted more new characters and more characters redone as combiner limbs. I liked that Optimus was redone as a combiner torso (even if the mold was trash). Sure, I'm glad that we got updates on Superion, Bruticus, etc but at the start of the line's announcement I envisioned that we'd get whole new teams. The only actual team we got was Voctorion and the voting ruined her from the outset.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
    Posts:
    28,660
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    327
    Likes:
    +7,711
    Well Hasbro didn't expect CW to be a hit that it was at the time so it caused them to rethink some things later on. That doesn't mean that no more repaints/retools are now out of the question. Especially since we've yet to see Monstructor/Dinoking be made along with US retail/Select releases of RID01 Ruination/Car Robots Baldigus here.

    As for the OG line up I'd rather that they don't revisit them at least for a while since we've still have the other combiners both G1 and non G1 that have yet to be touched on.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. RodimusRex

    RodimusRex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Posts:
    2,744
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +4,717
    I’m going to say...

    While I hope they more or less continue to use the universal connectors...

    I don’t think Combiner Wars figures look THAT good. They have ape proportions. The hands and feet were poorly executed enough that third party replacements took off. The torsos are oddly shaped. And the universal connectors themselves aren’t perfect and tend to have issues with load-bearing and wear when posing.

    Prime Wars trilogy was great R&D but rather than continue to milk those molds, I’d like to see what they can do now.

    Siege uses stronger joint plastic for starters alongside lighter plastic for non weight bearing elements (which is good for joints) and generally hides kibble better. They’ve gotten much better at ankle tilts and Jetfire’s hands are a new standard for CHUG figures.

    Rather than redoing every combiner at once, I’d like to see one combiner get redone with brand new molds or maybe just torsos without limbs and using the same connector shape.

    Maybe have a Superion or Devastator released over 5 years, taking its time on the pieces’ design, spreading the tooling budget out.

    Just maybe start with a torso and a new “army builder” limb or drone limbs for the impatient that can be swapped out.

    In general, my two preferred approaches are to:

    - do a Commander of the overall combiner with a torso and drone limbs that form a base.

    OR


    - make all 5-6 parts Voyager largely for the parts count but also so as not to skimp on accessories like hands/feet/individual weapons

    AND

    - After releasing either a torso with drone limbs or a torso with a new army builder limb, release just 1-2 additional limbs per year so that each part can have a 100% unique tooling that properly does justice to all 3 or 4 modes of the character. No pressure to complete everything. Maybe 1-2 combiners PER TRILOGY.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. allew

    allew Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Posts:
    4,209
    News Credits:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Location:
    The City by the Bay
    Likes:
    +3,785
    Ebay:
    I’m happy with the CW styled combiners - sure it would have been nice to get things like a two torso bot Liokaiser and voyager sized Dinobots (I got the OS KOs) but overall I’m satisfied, looking forward to the Seacons! Still hoping a G2 Defensor gets made someday!

    84232182-6956-4B16-9AA8-F71CEBE147B2.jpeg
     
    • Like Like x 6
  14. RodimusRex

    RodimusRex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Posts:
    2,744
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +4,717
    I feel like we got 3/5ths of a take on that with Inferno, Ricochet, and Wreck-Gar. We needed an ambulance and a blue copter.

    EDIT: Such as a Bayverse inspired Drift retool of Alpha Bravo and a Medix retool of First Aid.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  15. DanC

    DanC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2010
    Posts:
    2,819
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +16,149
    Same.
     
  16. imfallenangel

    imfallenangel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Posts:
    740
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Likes:
    +2,290
    I'm actually fine for the Combiners, except for the plastic quality and the ball joints that just don't hold up and needs to be "Pledged" fairly early on.

    I would prefer new molds and not as many repaints (but that's a pet peeve of mine for ALL series), or at least some proper remolds that distinguish them more, especiialy when even the weapons are the same.

    What I really wished for would have been engineering to build-in the hands and feet of the combined mode... I love when I find a combiner that isn't a partsformer especially like the way they were, with the hand/foot not made to seamlessly fit in the individual robot/alt modes.

    Aside that, when I discovered that the Dinobots would be coming out in almost perfect G1 form I was beyond happy, that they combines was an awesome bonus, but... even though they are great, they are absolutely too small. Considering that Predaking came out and was so much bigger. They should have matched in size, and I know that I've seen others state the same thing.

    That's the things that I wish they would have planned better for.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Maximus Danz

    Maximus Danz A.K.A Sex Pistol No. 4

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    Posts:
    3,402
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Location:
    Renssalear, NY
    Likes:
    +4,449
    Ebay:
    Takara did a ratchet
     
  18. RodimusRex

    RodimusRex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Posts:
    2,744
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +4,717
    Yeah but unless you bought 2, he already has competing places to go.

    I’d STILL probably buy a TR Arcee (I have the original) in Paradron Medic colors. Or the same for the next Arcee.

    I have a soft spot for Heroes of Cybertron redecos since I collected those PVCs and for Season 3 stuff.

    It surprises me we haven’t seen Medix, Autorooper, or Pharma in Generations.
     
  19. Prime Noble

    Prime Noble Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2008
    Posts:
    8,685
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Location:
    Ireland
    Likes:
    +15,221
    Personally I think one of the biggest offences was the retool of Silverbolt as Cyclonus and Hun-gurrr. The shoulders just feel too stiff every time you move them and the proportions with the chest just seem wrong to me.

    I agree that there are too many exclusives these days. Ireland has always been terrible for distribution. We only got 3 of the Terrorcons and missed a good few other figures from the Prime Trilogy. The shelves are crammed with the stylised Cyberverse and Rescue Bots stuff. Some will say that's because they have shows but if the toys were really good, they'd sell themselves.

    I know there's EBay for the exclusives but the Rainmakers are already above €100 and I don't see deluxe Twintwist for less than €45. There have been some great Botcon figures over the years such as Dreadwind and Ruckus. While I appreciate exclusive sets of toys for convention goers do add to the convention appeal, it is a shame most are so overpriced due to the simple greed of online sellers.

    On the subject of conventions, one of the greatest tragedies of the 35 year franchise was the cancellation of the Actionmaster based convention set using Prime Trilogy molds. Hasbro did release retail versions of CHUG Thundercracker and Thrust who had both been convention exclusives with a few differences so as not to detract from the collectors who already had the convention toys. I'd love if they released a few more altered convention figures such as the Ruckus and Prime Brakedown repaints of Off Road.

    I also agree that the POTP Dinobots are too small which is why I'm thankful for the oversized kos. On that note, I also feel that the Aerialbots and Terrorcons should have been bigger and the Predacons smaller.

    Don't get me wrong, for the most part I love the CW Trilogy. They gave us what I personally feel are the definitive toys of many G1 characters like Hardhead, Seaspray and Misfire.

    I also wouldn't mind more Titanmasters (NOT PRIMEMASTERS) in future lines and the return of the Titans Return version of the legend size class which could actually seat a Titanmaster inside the vehicle mode unlike the shortchanged and short-assed Battletrap duo who reverted to the terrible pre-Titans Return legends class.

    Well this post has gone on longer than I expected. Before people get defensive, I'm only expressing my opinion and preferences not attacking anyone who disagrees.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. YoungPrime

    YoungPrime DJD VET

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2004
    Posts:
    8,383
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +5,719
    I can see HasTak remaking the whole CW line up and many would have no complaints since it's clear that Hasbro sometimes purposely makes flaws in figures in hopes of us welcoming a better version since we bought the original figure or set of figures on the strength of finally having one in the CHUG lineup for the first time. For me here's how these combiner factions stand today.

    ARIELBOTS - Verdict: They're a Keeper! I have no major issues with these guys. They eventually gave us Slingshot (or whatever they call the May Mayhem figure that year) and I have no intentions of replacing this set.

    STUNTICONS - Verdict: Meh! The individual look of most of the Con's are cool but Menasor looks terrible IMO. But it would take a lot for me to replace him and 3P upgrades at this point.

    PROTECTOBOTS - Verdict: They're a Keeper! I've never had a lot of passion for this faction the set is fine and I have reason to replace them.

    COMBATICONS - Verdict: They're a Keeper! It feels like they just gave us the space shuttle version of Blastoff, Brawl I'm not to fond but not a deal breaker. I'm not replacing this set either.

    TECHNOBOTS - Verdict: Keeper! The UW version are the only Takara set (4 dlx 1 Voy) I have and I think I like that faction the most.

    TERRORCONS - Verdict: Keeper! If the Technobots are first then the Terrocon's are currently 2nd. We'll see if the Seacon's shake things up.

    CONSTRUCTIONS - Verdict: Keeper! I have the UW version of them as well. BUT I'd still grab set of QUALITY Deluxe Constructions that I'd display individually in bot and vehicle mode while keeping the UW set in combined mode.

    PREDAKING - Verdict: PASS! Ironically the Predacon's were my favorite combiner set growing up but I didn't like how they recently made the individual figures in this Titan class set. Predaking looks cool but I didn't feel he was worth the $159.99 price tag. Was hoping he'd get the Ollie's treatment this year but didn't so....here's to possibly looking at the 3P version if Hasbro has no future plans or discounts.

    TORCHBEARERS - Verdict: PASS! They need to do these fembots more justice.....

    LIOKAISER - Verdict: PASS! Another faction that deserved better.

    SEACONS - Verdict: TBD.

    ******************PENDING...?*************************

    TRAINBOTS
    DINOKING
    MONSTUCTOR
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
    • Like Like x 1