It was.
Die Gobots
Die Gobots

According to Wikipedia, it was dubbed twice, once for a VHS release and then later for a TV release:
Die Gobots – Wikipedia

 

The problem is you obviously expect people _wanting_ to discuss rationally.   Most people don't want to. And if they don't, you've lost anyway, even if you had the better arguments. Discussing on the internet is not worth anything. People often just don't want to be fair. There is no fun in it.

 

Ah, that explains why I had never seen that before. My parents never had cable. We only had satellite at the end of the 90s. I missed all the cool shows of the 80s and 90s that were only available on cable tv channels like Pro Sieben, RTL 2, Kabel 1, Tele 5, etc.

I liked the title "Die Gobots". But then I remembered it was supposed to be the german title  

"That's german. Die Bart, die"  

 

The fact that a lot of the Renegades had names that were, let's say, German-ish or Nazi-esque might be a factor too. That's more of a clear suggestion of taking the German brand and relating it to historical events that VW don't want to be associated with.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the entire premise of Transformers starts with "Heroic Autobots... Evil Decepticons... 4 million years of war". Right there, no questions asked, that description could set off their alarm bells being sensitive to it. I don't recall the GoBots elevator pitch, but I think it was similar.

 

Nice find. If only becuse of the history.  

Not saying this is the explanation, but like you said, it could at the very least play a part.

I doubt the Go-Bots licensed these cars. But it's not impossible that on top of Porsche's (and VW's) stand on turning their cars into war related toys, their experience with this, a line of Transforming toys basing the bad guys on Porsche's his work and designs, makes them less eager to grand the license.

Getting the VW license was described as a great breakthrough and Hasui did mention that they were very carefull to be very faithfull to the design. It played a part in deciding to make Bumblebee an accurate Beetle instead of the cartoon based chibi beetle, out of fear that they could loose the license.

Besides, although the Beetle was converted into a jeep-like vehicle, that was all VW relationship to the war. Porsche designed and built tanks.

Lamborghini on the other hand, didn't come to be until after the war. And actually, they recycled military vehicles. Literally turning swords to ploughs. SO I doubt Lamborghini has an issue.

Owned by, doesn't mean that the VAG makes every decision. They likely have a great level of autonomy.

 

They also had gray uniforms. Granted they gray is darker than what's seen on G1 Megatron but just look at the black knee high boots and the black gloves, you can just barely see it. This uniform lacks the red stripe on the pants but I would assume that this is an enlisted uniform and the stripe was only on officer's uniforms. The US military still does stripes on office's pants only.

 

Oh, there's definitely a comparison to be made on Megatron's colour scheme. If you look at how he was done in the Marvel series it's particularly prominent.

It's easy to forget now when war works on a smaller scale and has moved away from the the mass battles in WWII, how incredibly heavily that imagery loomed over the generations that immediately followed. Those were the people designing the characters here, and there was a hyper-awareness of it that would play a part when creating the bad guy. Hell, Seibertron just posted an interview with Bob Budiansky about it:

"One name I’m proud of is Megatron. Back in 1983, the threat of nuclear war felt very real – and destructive force was talked about in megatons. At first, Hasbro rejected it for sounding too scary. Gently I said to them: “Well, he’s the main bad guy. He’s supposed to be scary.” Luckily, they changed their minds."

 

Seibertron didn't post it, they just reported on it being posted elsewhere and quoted from it.

 

You realize that's called "making a post on a website", yes?

 

That's evading the point. Megatron form color to name is made to evoke the enemies of the 80's. Granted Germany was not an enemy at the time but WWII was something most Grandfathers of 80's children were a part of so it was still relevant. Also the cold was was in full swing and people Bob Budiansky's age ware most likely influenced my the Vietnam and Korean wars and the whole point of those was to stop the spread of communism.

This kind of writing is still used today. Just look at the Decepticons in NuRiD. A rag tag bunch of thugs kind of working together for what they believe is theirs. That description is really close to how Al Qaeda and ISIS work, and it's not done by accident.

 

I would say if anything stuff like this is a small example of why every car company, not just VW/Porsche, is far more protective about licensing than they were in the 80's. But in VW/Porsche's case, the "war robot" thing was already a deal breaker back in Alternators and may play a part in why we haven't yet gotten MP Jazz (although it's been strongly suggested in the past that the problem there might be not that Jazz is a Porsche but that rather it's the particular Porsche he's based on).

 

Baron Von Joy was a Guardian, aka a GOOD GUY. Did the name JOY not tell you that much? He was basically the quirky James Bond Q-like scientist (like Wheeljack) for the Guardians. Herr Fiend was his Renegade counterpart.
That theory kinda falls apart right there.
And Japan should have also been insulted by the Gobots cartoon because they made Zero into a bad guy? Same goes for the Soviet Union because the guy turning into a MIG jet was also a Renegade?

Porsche, and pretty much every other German company that was involved in the war back then (and well, they could not have been not involved, you could not stay neutral in Nazi Germany if you were an industrialist) tries to do its utmost to differentiate itself from their past, which includes NOT allowing any company to make war-associated toys of their products. And Transformers involved giant robots fighting a civil war. I think they sold the rights to Takara because, well, Japan was far away, and never imagined the molds would come back to "haunt them" later on. But as you can recall, the last Bumblebee that was a VW beetle (and wasn't a remold or repaint) was Pretender Bumblebee in 1989 - nothing since then until the Masterpiece could look like a VW beetle.

 

The thing is, you're basing this on the idea that every nation that would have been part of the Axis or an adversary would have the same reaction and dealt with it the same way as Germany did, which we know didn't happen.

After their surrender, the Japanese worked closely with the US during an occupation that created a close bond in the two countries. They've even kind of weirdly embraced attacking that part of their history with video games in some cases. Italy basically blamed the whole thing on a bad leadership and collectively walked away after tearing down that leadership quite aggressivley (that's an overstatement, but I'm not going to try to untangle that particular ball of yarn).

Russia has always maintained what would be a relationship with the US that is at least slightly adversarial, and tends to have an attitude towards the west that isn't entirely friendly, even in good years. Additionally, Russia doesn't bear a banner of being what was functionally the home of ultimate evil during the 20th century, that a massive difference in perception both external and internal. It's important to remember that communism, while often painted as such, was something that was always kept far away from us in the West. It wasn't something that was immediate and imminent in the same way. We were never directly fighting them in most cases.

What I'm driving at here is that we can't forget that Germany and German companies have a fairly specific outlook on the situation. Germany was blamed for WWI, largely incorrectly, and that led to the country being the main force behind WWII, and as you say, even if you didn't want to be, basically being forced into working with the fascists in some way.

We shouldn't minimize that either, whether as a group of collectors or anything else. They bear a burden of guilt that is massive for the actions of their forebears, whether willing or not, and it is specific to that nation, we can't paint all countries related by that period with the same brush.

 

Fuck me, all this over a speculatory piece of information in the 'rumours' section.

No one is actually 100% right, or wrong.

Now where's my fully licensed MP Jazz you assholes??!!??

 

Baron Von Joy is a Guardian yes, but his history is he used to be a Renegade. If you read back to post #59 in this thread I have a picture from the 1987 Gobots Annual which confirms this. So the idea the four bad guys picking their Earth modes in connection with each other still holds.

I think I discovered the source of VW/Porsche's anger towards converting robots...

 

Just..........wow.

 

They sold no rights to Takara. Early Transformers' figures alternate modes were unlicensed, because as I wrote several times already in this thread, back then car companies didn't care. The first Transformers figures with licensed alternate modes were 2001 RID Side Burn (specifically the red "new style" redeco, aka "Super Mode" Side Burn) and the Walmart exclusive RID Sideways/Axer two-pack.

And Porsche was obviously aware of this tidbit from a UK annual.  

 

Ha, probably not from that one page in the UK annual, but the annual must have got that from somewhere, like a Gobots character bible or something... and the further I skate the thinner the ice I know...

You talking about the topic... or the thread?

 

@Nevermore you're probably right that they didn't know about the annual, or care about the fiction, however, I think that this point has pulled us away from what's really pertinent here.

The issue would be that they now are actively protecting their usage rights with licensing, and have made a point of denying the warring robots. It's not a far stretch to think that GoBots or Transformers don't make much difference to the rights holders in this case, particularly if they were pissed in general about a) the use in the '80's by one or both, and b) any connotation or reference to something that they didn't want to associate with, no matter what that is.

It's entirely possible that all they care about is that there's a big war at the centre of both lines, and they are aggressively against any association. What @tikgnat has dug up here adds some worthwhile context to that situation, and it's worth considering these things.

To put it into another light, think about how much of a spotlight is being shone onto things like representation of gender and ethnicity in video games these days. There was a time where nobody thought much about it, and it was the wild west with no rules, digitally speaking. Fast forward a couple of decades where people understand that there's money on the table, and a host of other visible elements, and they are way more concerned about it.

 

Wow I can't believe the TF Wiki actually claims Porsche stated... then rolls with a quote from that totally unverified forum post of what one alleged Porsche employee said to another alleged Porsche employee over the phone! Jeez no wonder so many people think the 'no war toys' is an actual thing that happened! Truth is we have no idea at all if that was ever Porsche's position, then or now. For all we know it could be snobbish elitism, or just money. Both of those seem more likely to me. That wiki needs editing.

Cool old Gobots article though  .