I like sentinel prime

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Burger Supreme, Apr 24, 2020.

  1. Burger Supreme

    Burger Supreme Banned

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    When there was a conflict between autobots and decepticons; This dude had a serious influence on both sides. At one point, Sentinel Prime was trusted by the autobots to help end the war only to screw them over and kill Ironhide. It then turns into a hostile takeover when he links up with Megatron and the decepticons because he's the only one to stand up to the former and tell him he's the boss now (unlike Starscream). Out of pure jealousy and vengeance; Megatron and the Autobots are both out to take his head off. Dark of the Moon really felt like his story more than anyone elses. The previous two films really felt like a black and white conflict between two factions without depth or concrete context to it's origin. If it wasn't for bays genius to use Sentinel Prime as the conduit to piece their story together, I'm sure the average moviegoers would get tired of the franchise at that point.
     
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  2. AutobotAvalanche

    AutobotAvalanche Number One in Boogieland Moderator

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    I, too, watched DOTM.
     
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  3. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    Sentinel Prime was the best thing Bay put to screen during those ten years.

    I wish this character had been adapted elsewhere with an equally amazing voice and design.
     
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  4. Music

    Music Primetimus Prime

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    Sentinel Prime is hands down the most well developed and best-designed character in all of Bayverse. It's a shame other characters didn't come close. Emphasis on the design though—such as a cool looking character with his large blocky pieces.
     
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  5. Novaburnhilde

    Novaburnhilde シン・ブリュンヒルド

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    If they're gonna do the concept of an evil Prime / Mentor figure of Optimus again I want it to be done better, with more nuance than the movie series or the over-the-top IDW stories.

    Honestly with Sentinel I'd rather he was just a flawed guy who made some bad choices rather than just an out-and-out villain with no redeeming qualities. For all of Exodus' flaws, I really enjoyed his characterization. How he was essentially a leader who had become complacent in a bad system, but in the end finds his way back to the 'light' as it were, thanks to the likes of Orion and feels inspired again. Maybe he 'does' make some deal with the Decepticons, but comes to regret it due to how awful the 'Cons are and his conscience catches up with him.

    IDW just made every Prime that wasn't Optimus corrupt and irredeemable, which is lame and lazy.

    As much as I want to praise movie Sentinel, and I still like a lot about him, he's still very shallow in terms of character. It's hard for me to look past all that. Not at all the fault of Nimoy, he did great with what he was given. The novelization had a scene between him and Sam that I wish was kept in the film (It's been awhile since I read it, so maybe it's worse than I remember), it was a bit obvious in terms of foreshadowing, but even without the foreshadowing his turn is so obvious that it's just kinda cringy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
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  6. Rojixus

    Rojixus TELL ME YOU FORGIVE ME!

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    Sentinel Prime was easily the best part of the Bayverse as far as I'm concerned. I legitimately did not see that damn twist coming, it was my favorite part of the movie.
     
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  7. Music

    Music Primetimus Prime

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    I mean, he was already a flawed guy rather than a straight-up a villain in the Bayverse, right? His motives made a lot of sense. He was willing to make sacrifices to save his own people. That's not pure evil like for example The Fallen who literally only wanted to kill the sun of a habited planet just because he could (wow, ROTF makes less and less sense the more I think about it).
     
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  8. zark225

    zark225 The Day Fukr

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    Sentinel was awesome! Probably the best antagonist in the Movieverse (although I might like Lockdown a tad more) who had a great design, great voice, and a plot twist that you couldn't see coming.
     
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  9. Chaos Prime

    Chaos Prime Combaticon

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    Bayformers Sentinel Prime was a very hollow character. He turned evil without any warning, hints, or red flags and stayed that way till he died a cowards death. What a waste of cgi.

    His design was pretty cool though.

    They have unintentionally been doing an evil Prime. Watch all five Bayformers movies and see how in each movie Optimus is slowly, but certainly inching towards madness. But the writers weren't that smart, and I'm pretty sure it's all a coincidence.
     
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  10. Galvatross

    Galvatross Nemesis of the Dreklords Veteran

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    I think both are fantastic by Transformers standards, although I personally consider Lockdown the better of the two. Either way, I think they're a great one-two punch, with Sentinel Prime being an enjoyable final antagonist for the Original Trilogy, and Lockdown being a great follow-up to take the movies in a new direction. Although I also think both DotM Megatron's and AoE's Galvatron's roles in their respective films are underrated.
     
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  11. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Blue=Sarcasm; Purple=Snarkcasm

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    Galvatron was a waste.

    DOTM Megatron was an interesting cap on the trilogy's Megatron. He was kickass yet underutilized in TF1, even cooler in ROTF action wise and he got more screen time, and DOTM added a little meat on top.

    Much as I find TF1 to be one of the harder to watch films for me I will NEVER forget this line: "Is it fear or courage that compels you, fleshing?"

    That is a dead-on, no mistake MEGATRON line probably the most in character he ever was for one moment
     
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  12. ObakaChanTachi

    ObakaChanTachi someone please return the slab

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    Sentinel's what Megatron should've been in the movies. A family figure Optimus admires who turns his back on the Autobot cause he stood for to save his planet and his people, only to lose sight of his goals and become a tyrant and a monster. He'd have no qualms about disposing of allies (ex: Ironhide) and would make as many deals as he could with the devil if it meant getting his goal (ex: Megatron, who could be substituted with The Fallen or Unicron). Ultimately he slowly realises how far he's fallen and begs for mercy, but what's been done has been done and Optimus has no choice but to execute his brother for his misdeeds to save Earth.
     
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  13. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    I almost feel like they wanted to have Sentinel be a bit deeper. The way he genuinely refuses the Matrix and seems to actually respect Optimus seems sincere, up until he becomes violent and evil at the flip of a switch. Yet at the same time I feel like his actions, save the back-stabbing of Ironhide, could be those of someone misguided into thinking the end goal is worth the atrocities. Even his line about the needs of the many is a genuine sentiment, but delivered in a way that sounds almost mocking.

    Problem is the Bay movies abhor nuance and subtlety. There is no grey, merely black and white, and so Sentinel had to be an evil scumbag because he's the bad guy.

    In a better movie, Sentinel would've been genuinely regretful over the fall of Cybertron, blaming himself much as Optimus did, and thus he and Optimus represent what is ostensibly the same inner conflict with different conclusions. Both would be sacrificing one world to save another, and both are guilt-addled by this trade-off. Which is more or less what's in the movie, but there's not an ounce of genuine emotion from it. It's shallow like you said, and just completely dumbed-down and robbed of any emotional impact by him being unapologetically evil. (until he's grovelling, wounded and weakened, before Optimus fucking murders him like a psycho)

    But of course this is symptomatic of Bay's incompetence as a director. He lacks the eye for fine details in story and characters. The ideas are there, and they're often sound, he just can't realize them in a meaningful or satisfying way. (or in TLK's case, the ideas and execution are shit :lol  ) It's up to fans to add depth and meaning to things that are just there for spectacle and loud noises.
     
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  14. Rojixus

    Rojixus TELL ME YOU FORGIVE ME!

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    What was Optimus supposed to do, take him to Space Jail?

    Besides, the '86 movie has taught us that not immediately killing a bad guy begging for his life will result in your own death. That's what I choose to take away from that movie.
     
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  15. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    It's what TRF did.

    The idea that Optimus had "no choice" but to kill Sentinel is bafflingly apologetic to Bay's shit portrayal of the character. Sentinel had a hole in his torso, he was practically dying, certainly not capable of putting up a fight. He was no threat, and grovelling for his life. Optimus decides that, with the threat eliminated and Earth saved, the best course of action is to shoot a defenseless, wounded old man twice (if it was a mercy kill then why'd he shoot him in the chest first, just to make him suffer?) for literally no other reason but revenge.

    Worse, there's no reason for that scene to even be there. Sentinel could've just died from Megatron's attack, or attacked Optimus forcing him to put him down. Bay concocted a situation to make Optimus brutally murder a wounded and helpless foe. Mr. "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" apparently double-taps for good measure. There's no reason that scene needed to be set up the way it was, it was only done so to make Optimus into a bloodthirsty, vengeful murderer like his other declarations of violence.

    It's just one of endless examples that paint movie Prime as a disturbed psychotic who says one thing whilst doing another. Sentinel's murder was unnecessary, both in and out of universe.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
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  16. zark225

    zark225 The Day Fukr

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    Sentinel deserved what he got.

    But it would be super awesome if this didn’t become yet another “what Movie Prime did was/wasn’t wrong” kind of thread.
     
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  17. Galvatross

    Galvatross Nemesis of the Dreklords Veteran

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    Not at all. I thought AoE Galvatron was a great follow up to OT Megatron just like Lockdown was a great follow up to Sentinel Prime. He was voiced by Welker (Welker does a Shrektastic job breathing life into Galvatron!), he was autonomous and merely feigned being a drone to get what he wanted, he advances a lot of the events in the movie forward as the puppet master of KSI, and he fits the movie's theme of attempts at absolute control failing absolutely. He's also a logical evolution of Megatron from DotM and the reversal of Original Trilogy Megatron in some ways. Both AoE and DotM together make for one of the most interesting combination of Transformers fiction in the brand's history imho; DotM was a nice ending to the trilogy, and, far from ruining it, I thought was a continuation that complemented its predecessor nicely in so many ways.

    Back to the thread topic, I also thought Sentinel Prime was more interesting than any version of Shockwave we were likely to get. I would enjoy a Marvel-inspired Shockwave, but I'm glad they did something different with Sentinel.

    And perhaps, in his own way, Sentinel was a version of Shockwave. Sentinel was voiced by Nimoy, who played the character of Spock, who is known for his logical thought processes. Spock also happened to be the inspiration for...Shockwave! Bob Budiansky himself even said Shockwave was supposed to be his interpretation of what Spock would be as a Decepticon! So perhaps there were actually two "Shockwaves" in DotM! We can call them Shockwave and Spockwave!

    Heck, I found this great Hazekiah thread from years ago about Spocktimus Prime:

    Arise, SPOCKTIMUS PRIME!!!

    To add to his well written and thought-provoking thread, it's interesting to note that, just like Sentinel Prime was the inventor, guardian, and commander of the Pillars and their Space Bridge in DotM, so too was Shockwave instrumental in developing and maintaining the Space Bridge in the Sunbow Cartoon! Spockwave indeed! I guess you could say it's not Shrektastic, but Spocktastic or Shocktastic!
     
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  18. Shadow25

    Shadow25 Well-Known Member

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    I too am not a fan of Optimus executing Sentinel. It just doesn't sit well with me and I'm otherwise a huge fan of DOTM. I know it's in line with the darker character arc they are building towards with Optimus, but I still don't find it necessary. He could have easily just died from his Megatron-inflicted wounds. The only scenario in which I'd accept Optimus killing Sentinel was in the original script version, that was featured in the comic / novelization: he and Megatron team up for a brutal battle against Sentinel and kill him in the heat of that battle.

    Also re: Shockwave, interesting analysis @Galvatross , I can actually see that! I do think having it be Sentinel allowed for that extra layer of a pre existing relationship with Optimus, which would have still been possible with Shockwave but not to the same degree. Also, I think Shockwave was just a victim of circumstance, because at the time they were perhaps planning DOTM as the final film and Shockwave was just about the single biggest character not yet included, so they felt like he had to be in it.
     
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  19. Galvatross

    Galvatross Nemesis of the Dreklords Veteran

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    Yeah, I think there's actually thought put into creative decisions in the movies than given credit, and given the presence of Nimoy as well as the numerous Star Trek references already present in the film, I don't think the possibility can be ruled out.

    At the same time, it is likely they felt they needed to get Shockwave in the film before the films ended. It is what it is.
     
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  20. Terrellatron

    Terrellatron REPAIR REPAIR REPAIR

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    HOLY SHIT MILK CAME OUT OF MY NOSE XD
     
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