UT Challenger may be my favorite toy.

 

He's awesome! A great figure of a cool design.

 

It's still a figure that was beyond Hasbro's ability to actually produce, though - just another reason why the designs for the latter two films really got away from the realm of being sensible. Prime was only possible to do in standard toy form with massive amounts of non-integrated kibble hanging off him, Galvatron has the entire truck shoved on his back like he's trying to hide something from sight, and Lockdown's toy ended up being one of the worst figures ever produced in franchise history.

It's simply all style with zero substance behind them.

 

With a fun transformation  

 

Well I'd say that's more so the difference between a company producing toys on a budget for the masses compared to a figure clearly aimed at collectors. I'll slightly defend that Galvatron too, for being a shellformer he wears it well. Plus given what he does onscreen I think it's fairly forgivable. Having said that, UT Nero is the figure of that design that I have wanted since 2014.

I will mostly agree on that Lockdown though, he was bad and it took UT Peru Kill and Studio Series to finally have a decent Movie Lockdown.

 

That's why Masterpiece exists.

Note that the original movie Prime has a MPM figure. AoE Knight Prime does not. Doesn't take a genius to figure out why.

Especially since there are Energon figures more complex than that Prime like Mirage/Dreadwing. THAT is a well designed figure that puts movie figures to shame.

It really isn't given Hasbro should have put their goddamn foot down and nixed the stupid molecular no-effort "transformations". This is their franchise and they needed to exercise far more control since it's well known that AoE pissed them the fuck off with the mass murder of Autobots since that directly impacted who they could actually sell.

And when Hasbro finally did get that bigger say in the films they should have had from the start, by way of bailing out Paramount's sorry ass on Bumblebee, you know what happened? The film with the more classic designs ended up being the only truly positively-reviewed-across-the-board film in the entire Transformers live action line up.

But if they'd simply used an actual transformation where car parts formed the body without having to look like an H. R. Gieger nightmare, it could have been so much better. I mean, the Lambo Brothers mold from 2008 cost only 66% as much at retail as Lockdown and it's such a better toy in every imaginable way while basically having the same alt. mode.

 

MP figures are definitely collector aimed, but I would say still keep a larger audience in mind than third party companies. Plus I think the reason for Knight Prime not having a MP figure is because their focusing on doing Movie 1 designs.

It being forgivable or not is definitely something we'll have to agree to disagree on. Fact is they didn't do anything about the transformium stuff, which I thought was neat, and what we got is what we got. Not to mention, AOE wasn't the best Toyline. Figures since then based on some of those designs, like SS Stinger and SS KSI Boss (admittedly a repaint but the base design was based on KSI Boss) have been a huge improvement.

Also, I really don't think the G!-ish designs had a huge impact on the Bumblebee movies reception. They could have used any of the Bay design and it still would be a good film regardless.

I view Lockdown like I view Knight Prime's design: Should he have used more vehicle parts? Of course! Does that make it a bad design? No. He has a lot vehicle parts comparatively speaking and that design is badass.

 

No way, dude, when that first trailer dropped and everybody thought that guy was Starscream?

That just underscored how important the original designs are - everybody knows them. And familiarity is a key tool when trying to sell people something.

 

I don't necessarily disagree. AOE Optimus is by no means my ideal Optimus design. I just I think it's a solid design on a technical level. I do think criticizing lack of kibble (or him looking like a knight) is valid, since they are tied to the world and lore. But I don't think those automatically make the design ugly or bad. If kibble is the metric for a good or bad Transformer design, this toy must be a pretty good design. Yet most people would probably agree it's far uglier than the on-screen version that has less kibble. I think it's important to recognize the difference between bad design and simply wishing they had more vehicle parts (which is fine to want).

Again, I don't disagree, but those are story complaints, not design complaints. I think Galvatron is a fine design (aside from being a bit too partsy, which is a complaint I hold about the vast majority of the Bayverse designs). It's even consistent with the internal logic the movie sets up. I don't blame you for disliking the concept of them transforming molecularity, but that's a complaint with the script.

 

I thought that one was bad because it has no articulation and has horrible proportion.

 

That design is essentially a low budget Unique Toys figure where the robot and car kibble are one piece and the figure reveals itself by folding open from within its vehicle shell - instead of unpeeling the shell to get the robot you the shell becomes the robot!

I feel awful for saying this but if Hasbro worked on that layout as a Voyager that design might have a chance at working better than the one we got.

 

I agree that familiarity sells things and is definitely a good thing. But Bumblebee had a lot more going for it than just G1 heavy designs.

 

Before this thread is closed, I wanted to share Optimus primes cybertronian mode.

Optimus cybertronian mode in BB

And in TF1


The designs are clearly different.

Now I would have preferred something close to this in BB cybertronian mode. His face design could have been a hybrid design of his 2007 protoform and earth mode.

 

Honestly, I understand where everyone is coming from with their design preferences.



Big deal; let's all ease up.

 

That's actually a pretty cool design. I'm glad we got what we got in Bumblebee, especially since they seem to be using that as a starting point for a new timeline. But if they were to ever revisit the Bayverse, I wouldn't mind seeing a design like this.

 

I’m really disappointed that he looks exactly the same on Cybertron vs. on Earth save for some barely noticeable detail on his shoulders and wheels. Would it have killed them to give him some uniquely shaped windshield tits like in that one piece of art in the post above? That’s not making a completely new model, so I can’t imagine it would have taken them that long to just change his most attention grabbing design trait and leave the rest the same.

 

Wow that would've been much better TFBB cybertronian Optimus Prime

 

I think there you have to remember the Cybertron stuff was added virtually last minute when the film was rewritten extensively, so the fact they got anything out looking as good as it did is remarkable. Beast Wars actually largely did the exact same thing - the Maximals are all in silhouette at the beginning to hide the fact they are just the 'earth' forms with added, random details.

 

Personally, I think it's really cool the movies tried new designs.

As a Transformers fan, transformation involves change, and that's what the movies did in the designs department. And I like how the movies themselves changed over time in regards to disguise. I actually prefer the later designs for the most part over the earlier ones, because they're often more colorful and usually more visually expressive.

Shrektastic!

 

I was going by this design.

The kibble here, while more obvious than Primes, is a lot less obvious than that of the one you posted.

Did I say he turned into an Earth gun? The tube/hose and his chestpiece being the only recognizeable alt mode parts puts him just barely above Prime in this regard.

I fail to see how this is relevant.

Why is kibble all that necesarry?
As previously stated, I prefer Transformers with kibble, but I still don't think all Transformers need it.

Because I pointed out an actual flaw?

Great argument.

...

I didn't say it was enough.

I just pointed out extra bits of kibble.

Like I've said multiple times now.

It's not like it's completely impossible for characters with different alt modes to have nigh-on identical robot modes.

Those transformations were so much simpler, and they still resorted to cheating for many of them, while they could've made them look convincing without doing any cheating.

People praise G1 and its designs, usually looking past the cheating, but bash the Bayverse for cheating, despite making the transformations looking complex and actually convincing?

Yup, that's double standards alright.

That's why I said "The wheel and windows part"
I'm not seeing any wheels on his ankles.

Didn't TheSoundwave just point out a bunch of car parts on Lockdown?

Did I ever say I watch the movies solely because of the alt modes?
And if kibble is this important I'd expect the alt modes to be as well.

Also, Fast and Furious? Have you even seen the new trailer? That franchise is far too silly, even for me, a guy who loves Saints Row 4. (In case you didn't know, it's a game that's about as whacky as it can get)

I'm (usually) not really a fan of the cars used in F&F either tbh.

I'm saying that the robots don't need kibble to be transformers, and in the process I pointed out some extra kibble.
That should've been pretty obvious.

But transformations being too complex can be a problem. Wei Jiangs modified MPM 4 KO (The best transforming movie 1 Optimus atm) is a perfect example of this.

_____________________________________________
Now, back to what OP was actually talking about, I'll agree that Barricade could probably fit into Bumblebee, but I don't see Brawn fitting into the Bayverse.