How would you want Masterpiece Combiners to work?

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by general saberwi, Jan 27, 2017.

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How would you want MP combiners to work?

  1. CW style (Almost entirely self contained)

    17 vote(s)
    34.7%
  2. Entirely self contained (No parts need to be added to combine.)

    6 vote(s)
    12.2%
  3. Add on parts (I.E. Forearms, hips, feet, head.)

    16 vote(s)
    32.7%
  4. Other (Please Specify)

    2 vote(s)
    4.1%
  5. It's entirely academic, there will be no official MP combiners.

    8 vote(s)
    16.3%
  1. general saberwi

    general saberwi legoformer

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    It's fairly academic, but I've been wondering how you guys would want MP combiners to work. I don't know if we'd actually see any, but that's another issue entirely. By work, I mean as in how the combined form would be achieved, and the compromises with each. I think there are 3 main possible ways for MP combiners to work, as follows.

    Method #1: Scramble City/ Combiner Wars style
    In this method, all of the joints are contained within the figures themselves, with the only parts added being the hands and feet. This is probably me preferred method, as there is some challenging engineering going on, as well as very few extra parts. If possible, it would be a good thing if the hands & feet parts could be integrated into the core/ leader figure, and only be detached for combination. This is also the method most third party combiner figures use.
    • Pros:Very few extra parts, little partsforming, adds interest to figures, more accurate to idea of combination.
    • Cons:Integrated joints/combiner ports could lead to compromises with looks/articulation of individual figures, difficult to engineer, possible stability issues.
    Method #2: Entirely self contained
    In this method, all of the combiner parts, hands and feet are integrated into each figure. As in, the arm robots contain the hands, the leg robots contain the feet, etc. To my knowledge, there have been no 3P combiners to do this, and only 3 official figures that are not masterpiece. (RID Landfill, FOC Bruticus and G1 Liokaiser.) This method would be coolest from an engineering standpoint, but could lead to undesirable compromises with the individual figures, as seen with FOC Bruticus. This method also rules out limbs being interchangeable, ala Scramble City.
    • Pros:No extra parts, no partsforming, adds interest to figures, Perfect Transformation
    • Cons:Integrated parts could lead to compromises with looks/articulation of individual figures, but to an even greater extent than method 1, not show accurate, really difficult to engineer, could lead to stability issues, and lack of poseability in combined mode.
    Method #3: Skeleton Method
    Now, this one may be reaching, but actually has precedent. Looking at the G1 animation models of combiners like Menasor, very little of the combined form is actually the component robots. Most of Menasor's limbs are actually just generic blocky components, as described on his TFWiki page. With this method, most of the combiner, including the joints,the feet, the forearms, the hips and the head would be a separate skeleton, with the components mounted on it. There have been no official figures to utilize this method, but this is a popular method for customizers to make custom combiners. In that case, the custom maker users parts from Supreme class figures to make the hips, feet and forearms. This method means that there would not be any compromise in any individual figures, as they would not need to have any joints or other parts within them, but on the other hand, it looks kind of lazy, and then there is the small matter of the skeleton having nowhere to go when not in combined mode.
    • Pros:No compromise within individual figures, as they would not need to have any integrated parts, show accurate, stable, would alleviate some scale concerns.
    • Cons:Not particularly in line with Masterpiece ethos, lots of extra parts, probably expensive, as each figure would have a large accessory that does nothing, nowhere for parts to go when not combined, possibly lazy.
    So, that's what I think. Now, keep in mind that this is not about whether or not MP Combiners would ever be a thing, this is about how it would work if they were. So, what do you guys think? Which method would you prefer? Are there any insights I missed? I'd like to hear what you have to say.

    Edit: Whoops, I forgot to mention limb swapping. Ikkstakk mentioned it, and he does not want that. I don't fully agree. In the Masterpiece line, swapping of limbs is probably not needed, but some fans might still want it, at least within combiner teams. What do you guys think?
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2017
  2. Bountyan

    Bountyan Well-Known Member

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    CW or 100% self contained if it's even possible. The less partsforming the better.

    I was amazed at how they were able to get Laserbeak done without any partsforming. It would be cool to see the same with MP level combiners.
     
  3. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm Good Morning, Weather Hackers! TFW2005 Supporter

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    I'd prefer them to be as self-contained as possible, but allow for some parts-forming in the interests of screen accuracy (and the fact that TF combiners with no extra parts at all are a fairly rare thing)
     
  4. Ikkstakk

    Ikkstakk Well-Known Member

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    Oh good, finally a thread to speculate about Masterpieces... :p 

    But enough levity.

    I've always been fairly critical of Scramble City, I think it forces too many compromises into the limb figures, and particularly in the Masterpiece line it's entirely unnecessary as the line is focused on cartoon accuracy and none of the Scramble City combiners ever switch limbs in the show. So, while I can't endorse Takara's decision to go for full cartoon accuracy in every part, I do hope this is one instance where they ignore the toys and their play pattern as much as the show did.

    Now to get opinionated...

    Stunticons will never happen due to licensing unless Takara decides to go unlicensed and genericize the car modes. Aerialbots might happen, but they'd better be 1:1 scale with MP-11 or they ain't making their way into my collection.

    Combaticons and Protectobots: I'm not going to demand correct scale here, that would be ludicrous. BUT... I don't think it's too much to ask, nor impossible to engineer, limbs that at least acknowledge the fact a space shuttle is much bigger than a jeep and a motorcycle is much smaller than a helicopter.

    Technobots are futuristic vehicles, so make them all the same size, it doesn't matter.

    Terrorcons: we couldn't even get them in Combiner Wars.

    Seacons: as a lover of Masterforce, I want them. But I worry that their large size and overall unimportance will make them too much a risk for Takara to make.
     
  5. general saberwi

    general saberwi legoformer

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    D'oh, I knew I forgot something. However, if I recall, some of the teams have different configurations in the show, although I may not be remembering correctly. But, you're right. Most combiners have one configuration, and that configuration is what the fans would want. Interchangeability would not matter than, because while that would appeal to kids, Masterpiece isn't really for kids.
     
  6. seali_me

    seali_me RIP January 2018

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    Surprise me.
     
  7. Strife

    Strife Well-Known Member

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    To do it masterpiece quality, you can't do Scramble City sadly.

    The example you want to look at is CW Devastator ironically enough. Classically, Mixmaster and Scrapper's components should end before the upper thigh, and the upper thigh be only a component of Long Haul. However CW Devastator had half the upper thigh be attached to Mixmaster/Scrapper (it folded out) and half it attached to long haul. This made for much better proportioned (and looking) legs for Devastator, and kept Long Haul from having ridiculously long legs. The CW devstator approach is very favorable compared to Hercules, which had the (purple) upper legs entirely on Long Haul, leading to weird proportions, undersized legs and a far less accurate G1 look than CW Devastator (and later attempts at 3p Devstators).

    Masterpiece combiners would have to do the same thing to get as good of a G1 look, and to do that, it would have to color certain parts differently from the transformer because it "belongs" to the core part of the robot. Like for example, for Masterpiece Defensor, Streetwise would be white and have his proper look, but hidden internal components would need to be blue to give Hotspot proper looking legs.

    This would mean Scramble City-style masterpieces would be impossible. I find this acceptable because they never did it in the G1 Cartoon at all (out side of Scramble City: Mobilization), and Masterpiece has transitioned very hard into being cartoon-centric.
     
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  8. Purple Heart

    Purple Heart Got Well Soon

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    CW Devastator was design teh way he was partly becauss rhey feared a MP Devastator would never be made. Then again that was in 2015.

    I think the robot and combined modes need to be prioritized more then vehicle scale. The Stunticons would be the easiest, and the Aerialbots would follow in the same vien as the Seekers as being more about robot scale. Vortex, Blast Off, and Blades would have to be downsized but I don't think Takara would give up too easily. I think, as Takara is going to cartoon accuracy, having the hands and feet be seperate pieces would be the only way to go. Though I'm not entirely certain the omnicombinational aspect of the limbs would have to be dropped. CW did it, and these would just be more complicated versions of those designs. I think it should be though, as to never hinder the figure.
     
  9. Lex79

    Lex79 Well-Known Member

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    I'm ok with some partsforming (hands, feet, maybe chest plate) to allow for better figures. of course, Takara already surprised us in the past so maybe thay could figure out a method to integrate everything in the limbs. Just give us proper feet this time and not the CW ones...
    The combined form must be the priority, it must be stable and posable with good proportions. if it means messing up a bit with the scale of the individual figures I'm fine with it. Limbs interchangeability would be a nice plus but I'm willing to trade it for not having the gorilla arms sindrome of CW combiners. Of course if Takara manages to give us both, the better.
     
  10. lordcryotek

    lordcryotek M'Hael

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    If Hasui were to do them, that would be amazing; they'd basically be the CW figures but with quality plastic, decent paint apps, and a much higher parts count. The current designer would make them look like the cartoon, and the combiners, aside from Predaking, looked pretty stupid in the cartoons. If MP combiners were to happen, I would want them to avoid being too cartoon accurate, the cartoons made them look pretty shit. I prefer method #1.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2017
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  11. Electro Rush

    Electro Rush Just a guy waiting for the perfect Whirl

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    I basically would want them to follow Toyworld's approach for their Devastator: partsform dem sumbitches.
     
  12. peddlerofwine

    peddlerofwine Starscream's Robot Gun

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    I doubt Takara would do this. Combiners would sacrifice the detailing of what makes MPs masterpieces, even with the direction of going strictly toon. I actually used the CW version of Devy for my MP collection, combined mode only, lol.
     
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  13. Markus76

    Markus76 Well-Known Member

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    I don't mind if there's partsforming or not. All I care about is how the different modes look and the stability of the figure.

    CW Superion looks amazing and is also sturdy.

    CW Menasor has extremely long legs and a short torso and has stability issues which require you to spend more money to fix Hasbro/Takara's fuckup.

    If it's a Masterpiece, it has to be more like Superion and less like Menasor. Just make it functional. I don't want the look/functionality of the individual bots to be compromised to incorporate a gestalt hand/foot into the design.
     
  14. Wheeljack_Prime

    Wheeljack_Prime Searching for the Infin-Honey Stones

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    For my part, as long as it's not Scramble City style it's alright.
     
  15. timcrook

    timcrook Well-Known Member

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    Never going to happen because a box set would be too expensive and individual limbs would take forever to come out.
     
  16. ssjkazer

    ssjkazer mr dyslexia

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    Like combiner wars, lets be honest here g1 combiners have a simplicity to them especially the limbs arms come out legs pop out, the torsos transformation can be diffrent to add in the parts forming
     
  17. harveydent

    harveydent Unknown Member

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    The Takara engineers and designers would have to pull a rabbit out of their butts to get screen-accurate vehicle, bot, and combiner modes. Getting accurate vehicle and bot modes now is hard enough and often comes with a lot of compromises.
     
  18. myrrh

    myrrh Knell-Mown Wember

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    ...i belive war in pocket hulkie doesn't use any partsforming, and unless my memory's in error, neither did magnaboss nor tripredacus...

    ...i don't mind a little partsforming if it's essential to facilitate well-executed team members, but the bulk of the combined form and articulation should still be comprised of individual robot features...ideally, any partsforming components would themselves transform into thematic accessories which integrate nicely with the team in both modes, like booster packs, armor, weapons, and the like...
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2017