How Would You Handle The PRIME and or CONVOY RANK?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Shady boi, Jul 15, 2021.

  1. Shady boi

    Shady boi Insane Bangarang

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  2. Rewind Eject

    Rewind Eject Still no war in Ba Sing Se

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    Prime = Ship Captain. That's all Optimus is.
     
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  3. CyberstormSM

    CyberstormSM Turbo-Revvin' Young Punk

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    I've mentioned it before, but the idea I've been kicking around for a few months is that the Primes are essentially born aristocracy on pre-war Cybertron.

    Their sparks are harvested from one of the primal hotspots, but because sparks only rarely emerge from the primal hotspots, the forging of new Primes is rather uncommon. Essentially, being forged a Prime means being born into a life of wealth and privilege, and most of them are perfectly content just enjoying high society. Much of their time is spent engaging in upper-class recreational activities such as sharpshooting and gladiatorial combat (think more along the lines of fencing than illegal deathmatches) and enjoying the finer things in life. Primes are also very well-educated; in their youth, they are privately tutored by some of Cybertron's finest minds in a number of disciplines. Despite being immensely intelligent and athletic, though, most Primes are only really interested in using these skills for their own enjoyment; they're pretty aloof and arrogant, generally unconcerned with the rest of society.

    Optimus is one of the rare Primes who rejects this and instead chooses to do something with his life, but that's a different topic. Basically, though, the basic idea I had was to try and walk things back to Marvel while also stepping away from the trope of Prime being synonymous with Autobot leader, all the while trying to establish an origin for Optimus that shows us that he's special not because he's a Prime but because he's Optimus. I've been considering reworking some of this lately, but I dunno.
     
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  4. Soundwave902

    Soundwave902 The Lone Survivor

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    Prime, and later Convoy, is a title for bearers of a Matrix. Being bestowed with so great an artifact traditionally elevates it’s wielder in society, making them great leaders and statesmen. The Matrix of Leadership is the only known surviving Matrix, with known Matrices from the Unification Wars being that of Conquest, of Deceit, and of Rage.

    Convoy is used among the proto-races (I.e. Maximals and Predacons) to denote their Matrix-bearers; due to their lower social status from the Original and Neo-Generation Cybertronians, the title of Prime is not bestowed. The Matrix is more valuable than its wielder, making them an escort or “Convoy” to ensure its safety.
     
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  5. ArkinDotWav

    ArkinDotWav Legends Manga Apologist

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    Mine turned out really long, so I put it in a spoiler box. There's kinda just a lot of information on my take is why.

    The original thirteen Primes had uniquely crafted Laser Cores (which is the mechanical organ which holds the spark) which made them more powerful and gave them a special connection with Cybertron itself (Primus). These Laser Cores were known as Prime Cores. The Prime Core of the Thirteenth (who isn't Optimus in my mind), is actually the very Matrix of Leadership itself, the center being his crystalized spark. Also tied to the Matrix is the trailer and Roller, which changes form to suit each Matrix bearer.

    After the death of Prima, and the Matrix being briefly lost, Nova Prime, a Decepticon poseing as an autobot, who's rela name was actually Devron, took the title of Prime for the religious connotations among the Cybertronian people. He would then find the Matrix and use it to try and gain more support from the Cybertronian people, this would result in a brief conflict between himself and the Decepticon general Murdron, who denounced Nova's claim to the title for lacking a Prime Core, as well as openly critizised Nova's imperialist conquering of other worlds.

    Prime eventually became a title for the chief representive of the Cybertronian council. However, legends persist of the possibility of there being modern Cybertronians who possess the Prime Cores. Optimus was the first of these to be discovered, being a major contributing factor as to why he was selected as the next Prime over Megatron. Though Megatron suspected bias against Decepticons as the true reason.

    Hot Rod also possessed this special Laser Core, which is why he was chosen by the Matrix to become Rodimus Prime. Rodimus would then pass the Matrix on to Ginrai at the end of his life, who would not take on the title of Prime out of respect for Rodimus and Optimus before him, as he was a human controlling a Transtector, and as such couldn't possess the Prime Core. Star Saber and Dai Atlus would also follow that example, despite the fact that Star Saber did in fact possess a Prime Core.

    Then, when the alien Dark Nova was constructing Gigatron from the remains of various passed Decepticons, the Autobots built a new kind of protoform to give the matrix too, which would become a living embodiment of the Matrix itself to act as the Autobot leader. This new leader was an amalgamation of the previous Matrix bearers, physically taking on an appearance which mostly resembled Optimus Prime, due to his immense respect among the Cybertronian race, as well as his roller resembling Rodimus, and capable of transforming. Due to being the amalgamated form of all previous Primes, this leader was named Star Convoy, as a convoy is a group of trucks driving together.

    When the Autobots and Decepticons fully evolved into the Maximals and Predacons, the title of Prime briefly returned before being mutated into the title Primal, which was actually held by multiple high ranking officers at once (so basically, think what Prime means in animated), with Magnaboss and his composite parts, the Maximal council of elders, as the true ruling authority among the Maximals. The most notable Primals were Optimus Primal, Lio Primal, and "Big" Primal (I can't think of a better name for Big Convoy. It just sounds way cheesier with Primal at the end instead of Convoy).

    Although there was also Onyx Primal, named after the original Onyx Prime, who went missing after a government scandal in which she was discovered supplying Predacon extremist groups with weaponary and other technology.
     
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  6. HispasatBot

    HispasatBot Well-Known Member

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    Prime is the title of the first 13 Transformers. Convoy is the title of the Autobot leaders.
     
  7. Zentropy

    Zentropy Toys > Fiction

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    No idea, but I don’t like it as a designation of rank. I don’t like it to mean the “Matrix Bearer”, either, because I never cared much for the concept of the Matrix of Leadership. It’s just part the name given to a character long ago that somehow got reinterpreted and expanded beyond its original intention.
     
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  8. SecretWyvern

    SecretWyvern Tax fraud is the right of all sentient beings

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    Prime is the rank given to the supreme commander of the Autobot military, but that doesn't make them the leaders of cybertron. They're the top general, commands the entirety of the army, but has to answer to the leaders of the city-states and the councils, limiting their overall ability to act as well as their power in general. Once upon a time, Primes might've been the supreme rulers of Cybertron itself, back before the cities were formed and the Autobots started losing influence in general, but those days have long since passed, especially with the cities further trying to move away from the Autobots, stripping away funding to feed into their own military programs.
     
  9. TF rocks

    TF rocks Try and stop me!

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    Why do I enjoy these kinds of threads? XD
    Anyways, onto my own ideas of how I would do the Prime/Convoy rank

    The Prime rank would be the leader the Council grooms to take command of the Cybertronian government, meaning the Prime is basically a puppet that is the Council’s representation to the people. Now this is not necessarily a bad thing, but some Primes have... less than ideal records during their reign.

    Despite the Council choosing the next Prime, there is a once in a while situation where the planet itself chooses the next leader, called the Convoy. A Convoy arises to power when Cybertron is in dire straits, like during the Quintesson invasion. The first Convoy, literally called that, took power and brought peace to Cybertron, leading to a Golden Age.

    The reign of a Convoy becomes synonymous with the Golden Age, as each time of the reign is filled with unprecedented peace and prosperity. Each Convoy also has golden optics, but that is just a mere cosmetic thing.

    As each Convoy rises to power under times of great threat, there is no way to tell who will become a Convoy until that time comes, so the Council cannot groom a Cybertronian to become a Convoy, much to their dismay.

    Because a Convoy comes from the random populace, it means that a Convoy can relate better to the average mech/femme than a Prime can as well.
     
  10. Rojixus

    Rojixus I AM NOT YOUR ENEMY!

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    A Short History of the Primes
    The position of Prime has had a varied and significant meaning throughout Cybertronian history. From a title denoting the divine right to rule, to a living embodiment of constitutional democracy, to a mere historical curiosity, the position of Prime has meant many things to many people.

    The Dynasty of Primes

    Ancient Cybertron was a chaotic patchwork of feuding tribes and petty kingdoms until the planet was unified by the warlord Convoy of the Seibatron Tribe in the First Cybertronian War. Ruling from the ancient city of Pellechrome, Convoy took the name Primon and declared himself the son of the god Primus. Over the succeeding megacycles, Primon would expand his domains to the stars themselves. Dozens of planets were cyberformed and colonized by Cybertronians, including Velocitron and Corumkan.

    Primon was succeeded by his first-constructed son Prima. It was under Prima's reign that the first Titans were constructed. Prima was succeeded by his son, Adjudicus Prime, who gave Cybertron and its colonies a new unified law code. It was this law code, the Lex Cybertronia, that formed the basis of what would become Functionism. Adjudicus Prime was succeeded by his daughter Solus Prime, who designed and built the first space bridges to bind the colonies ever closer to Cybertron. Logos Prime succeeded his mother, Solus Prime. Logos Prime was a gifted writer who authored the Grand Cybertronian Taxonomy which codified Functionism as an actual practice. The next Prime, Vector Prime, overhauled the Cybertronian calendar. It was believed that Alchemist Prime, who had a fondness for engex, was the secret founder of Maccadam's Old Oil House. His daughter, Amazon Prime, prided herself on being a great patron of commerce. Her reign was marred by the ruthless exploitation of the colonies and the reduction of the worker caste to virtual slavery.

    At this point in time, the Dynasty of Primes had begun to decline. Colonial rebellions and class conflict resulted in the Primes cracking down and becoming increasingly autocratic. The thirteenth Prime, Nominus Prime, was a reformer at spark. Believing the Functionist caste system was a relic of ancient times, he made many moves to curtail Functionism's influence in Cybertronian society. Finally, he issued the Nominus Edict, which abolished the caste system outright. This outraged many of Cybertron's more conservative elements, many of whom threw their support behind the Destrons and their leader, Exarchon. Exarchon, who had been the commander of the Primal Vanguard's Black Order, rebelled against Nominus Prime to preserve the military caste's traditional privileges. The resulting Second Cybertronian War was an extremely devastating conflict. The Destrons managed to defeat Nominus's forces and the Prime was put to death on a live datanet feed. Afterward, the position of Prime was abolished and Exarchon became the first Lord High Protector of the Cybertronian Empire.

    The Autobots and the New Order of Primes

    The First Cybertronian Empire eventually dissolved and was reformed as the Second Cybertronian Empire. Although the names of their masters changed, the status of the labor caste did not. A group of disgruntled workers gathered together to demand the end of the caste system, declaring that autonomy was the right of all civilized beings. These workers were met with absolute brutality by the Destronger authorities. This group, branded Autobots by the media, soon became radicalized and started a guerilla war against the Destrongers. Had the Destrongers been at the height of their power, the Autobots probably would have been annihilated without much effort. However, the Destronger Empire was severely weakened by imperial overreach, succession wars, and foreign adventurism. The Autobots managed to defeat the Destrongers and their Emperor was put to death on a live datanet feed. Afterward, the position of Emperor was abolished and the Autobot Supreme Council became the governing authority of the new Cybertronian Commonwealth.

    The Quintessons and Vestials wasted no time in taking advantage of the Commonwealth's weakness and launched invasions of Cybertronian space. Combined with Destronger insurgents within, the Supreme Council declared a state of emergency that soon became known as the Reign of Terror. Anyone deemed enemies of the people were subject to show trials and public execution. Literature from past regimes were gathered and burned in public ceremonies. Eventually, the more radical Autobots turned on each other and soon Autobots were being declared enemies of the people. More moderate Autobots came to power and called for a conference to recommend changes to the constitution then in place. However, the conference instead called for a new constitution altogether. One of the provisions of the new constitution was the appointment of a Prime to serve as head of state for life by a democratically elected Primal Conclave. The first Prime under this new system was a judge named Tyrest. Taking the name Nova Prime, he led the Autobots to victory over the Quintessons and Vestials.

    The Age of Wrath

    By the 106th Autobot Prime, Regulus Quintus Prime, the Cybertronian Commonwealth had descended to a state of corruption and decay. Once known as the Young Prime, Regulus became increasingly venal and corrupt as the megacycles wore on. Under his reign, the Cybertronians went to war against the Quintessons. The controversial nature of the war combined with the unsatisfactory treaty that followed caused the Autobots to lose much public support. In the aftermath of the war, a group known as the Ascenticons rose to power across the Commonwealth. Their leader, Trannis, was appointed Chancellor and gradually concentrated more power. When Regulus Quintus died of age-related spark burnout, Trannis abolished the Primacy and assumed both its powers and the powers of the Chancellor into a new office—the Liege Maximo.

    After eight megacycles of Trannis's tyranny, the Autobots rose in rebellion and began the Fifth Cybertronian War. After the fall of the Ascenticons, the Autobot general Sentinel EnN became Sentinel Prime. Sentinel Prime was a militant enforcer of law and order, a trait that proved highly popular given the times. Ironically for such a hardline soldier, Sentinel Prime presided over the near-total demilitarization of the Commonwealth. A military force known as the Elite Guard was retained while the colonies were allowed to maintain their own defense forces. Unknown at the time, these demilitarization efforts would have dire consequences.

    In the 12th megacycle of Sentinel Prime's reign, a radical offshoot of the Ascenticons known as Decepticons invaded the Commonwealth. Although the Autobots fought valiantly, their efforts were irreparably harmed by spies within the ranks of Autobot Intelligence. Sentinel Prime was able to slay the Decepticon Liege Maximo, Terminus, at the battle of New Tyrest. Unfortunately, this victory came at the cost of his life, a profound blow to Autobot morale. After a deeply contentious Primal Conclave, Senator Optimus Maximus of Omnitron was chosen to be the 108th Prime. Although Optimus Prime had been a veteran of the Fifth Cybertronian War, he was extremely divisive due to his relative lack of political experience. Many pointed to the fact that he had only been the Senator of Omnitron because the rest of Omnitron's government was killed in the opening battle of the war while he was away at a conference.

    Optimus Prime was very much besieged at all fronts. A Functionist terrorist group known as the Rise was emboldened by the Decepticon invasion. Additionally, the Maraudicon Syndicate threw their support behind the Decepticons and began sabotaging the Autobot war effort. Finally, the outright treachery of Senator Starscream of Archon insured that the Decepticons had easy access to the Commonwealth's core worlds. Eventually, Cybertron itself fell to the new Decepticon Liege Maximo, Megatron.

    Although Optimus Prime did not have the skills his enemies had in abundance, he did have one ability they sorely lacked—the ability to form alliances and coalitions. Rallying the disparate factions of the Commonwealth, Optimus Prime was able to lead a united front against the Decepticons and drive them out of the Commonwealth.

    The Maximal Era

    The Autobot-led Cybertronian Commonwealth eventually gave way to the Maximal-led Cybertronian Stellar Imperium. Although Primes were technically selected in the same way as they were in the Autobot Era, the Primal Conclave always selected the Magnaboss of the Maximals as the Prime. The 77th Maximal Prime was Cerulean Prime, a hard-edged military officer who had previously repulsed an invasion of the Horde Malignus. It was during his reign when the neigboring Predacon Star Empire was rocked by religious upheaval. The Predacon Emperor Magmatron was overthrown by the dark prophet Shokaract. Although Cerulean Prime had no love for Magmatron, he understood the Predacon at least. Shokaract, in contrast, was an absolute enigma. However, there was suspicions that Shokaract was in fact the Maximal experimental supersoldier Protoform X. If true, Cerulean Prime was prepared to eradicate the abomination, no matter the cost.
     
  11. CyberstormSM

    CyberstormSM Turbo-Revvin' Young Punk

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    Nice.

    EDIT: Optimus Maximus is also an interesting pre-Prime name for Optimus.
     
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  12. ObakaChanTachi

    ObakaChanTachi Well-Known Member

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    In my series Primes are Cybertronian presidents, essentially. Every half a dozen solar cycles, a new Prime is elected. The catch is that unlike in our world, there are no term limits. Essentially that means Primes can run forever until they die in war.
     
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  13. SuperSunnyDee

    SuperSunnyDee Sense is like cheesecake.

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    Like almost anything Transformers, my take would be a mush mash of older concepts. Maybe one or two original ideas or variants I would throw in there. I’m mostly just gonna refer to the title of “Prime” since I don’t know what differences come with the Japanese equivalent. So yeah I’d basically have it be like this:

    - “Prime” derives from the name of Primus.
    - There were 13 original Transformers with the surname “Prime” and each had an aspect of Cybertronian life or biology they specialized in(Transformation, size, technology, wisdom, etc).Their descendants would inherit all of these qualities but at a much lesser extent.
    - The 13 would die or disappear. Eventually their divine origins and power would be heavily scrutinized as the years went by, but their existence and general level of skill wouldn’t really be disputed. So the word “Prime” would retain a near universally understood connotation of wisdom, skill, character, and power.
    - Descendants of the 13 would form their own colonies and use their own methods of appointing a Prime until a new global government would eventually form and appoint a single Prime.
    - In peacetime, the new Prime is appointed by a council who both they and the governed consider one of, if not the, best that their people have produced.
    - The Prime is essentially a figurehead and an executive power. There is only one Prime at any given time, but both the Prime and council are allowed to look into other candidates if they so choose. The Prime rules in conjunction with the council, but has special influence and political power because of their rank.
    - The Prime serves an indefinite term. Only a new Prime is elected once the previous one either loses support of the people, retires, or dies.
    - Primes become romanticized in the sense that their ruling era becomes associated with certain characteristics. For instance, Optimus came into power shortly before the war was properly recognized, so his era was mostly associated with war and nobility.
     
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  14. KFGatri

    KFGatri Madman with a Blue Box

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    Prime is the title of the Matrix holder, which doesn't necessarily correlate with being leader of the Autobots. Sure, Optimus was a Prime, and Rodimus was named one by the Matrix/spirit of Optimus. But Fortress, Ginrai and Star Saber led the Autobots without having a Magic Disco Ball in their chests. Autobots tend to make the Matrix holder their leader, but it doesn't have to be that way.

    Convoy is simply a model/style of Autobot which tends to end up in high-ranking positions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  15. Cyberbot8460

    Cyberbot8460 IПƧƬΛПᄃΣ ΛBЯΣΛᄃƬIӨП

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    Prime = Supreme Commander of the Autobot Federation, its military and the personal leader of the Primal Vanguard, a branch of the military concerned with offworld peacekeeping. The Matrix is used as a heirloom, passed from Prime to Prime. The Matrix is a fragment of Vector Sigma. Vector Sigma was programmed by the Quintessons as part of the Vector Series of AIs, created to run their planet-factories. After Cybertron was freed from Quintesson rule, Vector Sigma's sentient core was forged into the Matrix. Its sentient core was thus named "Primus" and was worshipped by Cybertronians. When one inserts the Matrix into one's chest, Primus bonds with its host, granting them the collective knowledge of all Cybertronians. This is why only Primes are given the Matrix.

    Convoy = A military rank of ship captains and squad leaders in the Autobot military. Before his ascent to Prime, Optimus Orion Pax of House Pax was a Convoy. Before he was a Convoy, Optimus was simply called "Orion" or "Orion Pax" due to his status as a member of House Pax. After he became Convoy, he was referred to by his first name more often, and thus, when he ascended to the rank of Prime, he was named Optimus Prime. After Optimus' reign, all Convoys were upgraded to resemble him somewhat, whether it be a modification in their headsculpt or in their whole body, though none of them looking exactly like him due to differing alternate modes. Some of the most notable post-Optimus Convoys are Lio Convoy, Big Convoy, and Primal Convoy, all three of whom assumed beast forms upon their voyages to Earth and similar organic planets.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
  16. Nemesis Compactor

    Nemesis Compactor Well-Known Member

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    Prime is some in some universes (G1, Machine Wars, Shattered Glass)

    Convoy in others (Unicron Trilogy, Car Robots, splinter Beast ones for Lioconvoy and Big Convoy)
     
  17. Lola

    Lola Soap

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    Mythological: Prime essential translates to Deity/Apostel/God or Demigod
    Historical: name comes from Primus (Cybertronian word for God/Creator) and was used by the ancient "Autobots" to refer to their leader. After the end of the golden Age the Functionist Council used it as the highest Cybertronian Rank. Later used by the "new" Autobot reformation to describe the Supreme Autobot Comander.
    On that note Magnus is the highest millitary rank and right hand of the Prime if you will during the functionist regime, afterwards it essentially just became a name.
    Convoy commander of the Autobot ranks on Cybertron pretty much the leader of the individual Autobot forces.
    Maximus Rank bellow commander (also a name)
    Major Rank bellow Maximus
    Minor Rank bellow Major

    Decepticons:
    Overlord Decepticon commander of individual Decepticons Armies and Forces, bellow Emperor of Destruction ( Also the name of some snob)
    Lord bellow Overlord (not the pipeblower)
    Emperor (Emperor of Destruction) Leader of the galactic Decepticon Empire (Megatron)
    Liege prior to the expansion of the Decepticons outside of Cybertron name of the highest Decepticon. Used with Emperor interchangeably
     
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  18. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's Zvil!"

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    The Designation of Prime is essentially that of "Leader of the Autobots".

    All Primes come from the "House of Magnus", a production line whose body style is compatible with housing the Matrix of Leadership. Primes may change their body style or what they haul later on but they all start with the classic Cybertronian Magnus cabover hauler design at their core.

    [​IMG]

    Unbeknownst to The House of Magnus was the Chosen One designated by Alpha Trion from an alternate production line.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Honorbound

    Honorbound Bayverse Optimus was in the right.

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    There are two (or three, depending on how you look at it) types of Prime in my fan canon. You had the original followers of Primus Xal - Vector Prime, time-traveling founder of the Matrix Templars (always moving forward, never back), Solus the Forgemistress, Epistemus the Sage, Onyx the Warrior (heavily based on BW Dinobot, complete with heroic sacrifice), and Ignarios the Fallen. These guys were later redubbed as the first Primes by the later Matrix Templars, whose grandmasters were dubbed Primes. The Matrix Templars were later wiped out by monarchs seeking political advantage generations after the Quintessons and their Forgespawn (reformatted servants of the Quintessons, resembling a cross between the Bayverse Decepticons and Transtech Maximals) servants were cast down.

    The modern definition of Prime isn't a rank, it's a title inspired by the Matrix Templars and their wars against the ancient Forgespawn, appropriate given that the Decepticons (or Ascenticons as they call themselves) in my fan canon are a reformatting cult directly inspired by the ancient Forgespawn warlords. As to what the modern Primes are, they're a thirteen-man unit of super soldiers that were the predecessor and Autobot counterpart to the IDW Warrior Elite/Phase Sixers. They didn't exterminate planets the way that the Phase Sixers did (and in this continuity, Phase Six work is mostly about exterminating already beaten, shell-shocked survivors), but they broke their feet off in Decepticon backsides. The Primes were often deployed in two or three-man teams, with a few like Optimus operating solo or alongside more traditional military structures. Being a Prime didn't guarantee high rank. Optimus didn't become overall leader of the Autobots upon becoming a Prime - that happened later, when the Minicon leader of the Alliance of Worlds, Sparkplug (the last really good leader, before the collectivist factions usurped control), got sick of the stalemate and put Optimus in charge with four of the scariest words he ever uttered: "You have free reign."
     
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  20. Cyberbot8460

    Cyberbot8460 IПƧƬΛПᄃΣ ΛBЯΣΛᄃƬIӨП

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    Feedback on this interpretation?
     
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