How do you feel about the 86 movie from a critical standpoint?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by DarkRed401, Sep 28, 2018.

  1. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    But now you’re changing your complaint

    Your earlier complaint was that the film established “death” as a possibility which ran counter to the Series

    Sure, things were faster in the film, even deaths, but they were trying to tell a story in an hour or so, can you imagine how long the film may have been if they drew out those deaths to be longer then they did
    Not a great comparison
    Their “thumb drives” (btw lol) were removed from their bodies before the bodies were destroying
    That much is true but isn’t that the case in just about any fiction

    Some characters get shot hundreds of times and do fine and other characters one bullet and it’s over
     
  2. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    Nah, I dissagree. Its annoying enough sure, but he voiced a lunatic. Its completely on the money and a very difficult feat to accomplish as well. Nimoys voice was dark and brooding too, but it was so.... cliche. IMHO ofc.

    EDIT: Maybe rewatching Webworld with my post in my mind, will help you settle/understand easier what I mean.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
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  3. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    I didn't change my damned argument. Maybe you interpreted it differently, that's not on me. My point was how suddenly random shots were offing TFs left and right while Optimus exploded HOW MANY TIMES in the episode with the Rainmakers?

    If you can see that someone is discussing a point and that a thread forms, nitpicking one word to try to change their message solely because you don't really have an argument is kind of a jerk move.

    So once again, since Sparks (Hhhhhhhhhhhh...) weren't around in G1, how could what is essentially a thumb drive be used to bring back someone? For that part, if it's THAT easy to bring someone back, why were the deaths in TF:TM even deaths at all?

    I know you're not going to see my point of view, but I've explained the reasoning behind my opinion fairly well, which is more than anyone is owed in regards to my opinions.
     
  4. Crim

    Crim Well-Known Member

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    .... Because Hasbro wanted to sell more toys. We all know that's the only reason the movie existed, there isn't some grand artistic vision surrounding the movie.
     
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  5. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    No need to get defensive and use that kind of language, i was only asking you to clear up what you mean and was not trying to give a debate on it, again i was just wanting to understand how and why you felt it was an issue

    But since you went there.....
    Your first claim was that the film “established deaths” which countered the SeriesNow you are claiming your issue is with how easy the deaths were

    That’s not an interpretation issue on my part, that’s you changing your complaint or just a failure on your part to choose the right words to voice your issue

    Trying to say it’s was an issue of my understanding, and not you choosing the right words to express your point is the real jerk move
    I do get what yours saying

    I would assume that the “thumb drives” of all that died in the film, were destroyed with their bodies, unlike the combaticons who’s “drives” were removed before the bodies were destroyed

    But I would say that the real question is, why doesn’t every tf not copy all their files to back up thumb drives?
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
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  6. SMB73

    SMB73 Well-Known Member

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  7. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    ...

    Since our insistence on treating this fiction with the same lever we treat non-toy commercials, I left "to sell toys" as the understood part. Thank you for pointing it out, and I will NEVER leave it for board members to take anything for granted in any of my posts. ESPECIALLY with what follows.

    Reread my posts, there's a pretty blatant stream of thought. Only through nitpicking the ONE USE of the word "quickly" could you even come to that conclusion. Maybe I'm being too harsh, and maybe it's a language barrier. I doubt it, but it is possible.

    My use of quickly, if you look at the post I used it in, is in contrast with the fact that the Autobots and Decepticons suffered FAR WORSE and stayed that way for 4 million years. Yet BAM! DEAD! in the movies. I realize that they didn't put enough thought into a glorified commercial, but ALL fiction is up for scrutiny and review, so they really should have done better to establish something along the lines of suffering so much damage that they needed rebuilt. Had the newer product been upgrades to the older product/reformatting because of damage, it would have made more sense with established canon.

    It's the fact that the Autobots, who are hurting for manpower, didn't think "Hey, let's save their personality components and rebuild them later!" that boggles the mind.
     
  8. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think that reformatting would’ve been the best option I just think they should’ve done a better job of showing severe damage, so much so was that rebuilding wouldn’t of even seem possible

    My thinking......Those components were destroyed with the bodies

    Think about it as if they could be transplanted from a living body, a body being kept alive, or very recently dead but not necessarily recovered from a body destroyed and left waiting on the ground for sometime
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  9. lordsmurf

    lordsmurf Well-Known Member

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    Twitter:
    That's the truth behind every fictional work.
    - Movies for the love of movies are fan films -- and even then, the goal is grander (work in the industry to make money).
    - Short stores are called fan fiction -- and sometimes those are attempts to practice better writing, to move into submissions of stories, and one day get published, to make money.

    You can't denigrate this movie because it exists to sell toys (ie make money).

    The best response to that is "duh".

    But it still doesn't preclude the movie (the fiction) from being good or bad on its own merits. Same for being animated, an art form in its own right, requiring no less skills that anything else.
     
  10. agent j 15

    agent j 15 Banned

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    Looking at it strictly as a film? It's very okay. Story's a bit all over the place, animation is fine but nothing amazing, character development is kinda ass save for Hot Rod and even he's just "okay"... but the thing is it's VERY hard for me to separate the movie from the franchise I love. I don't have the advantage of going in blind to it - I didn't even know it existed until I was already deep down this rabbit hole.
     
  11. UltraAlanMagnus

    UltraAlanMagnus See ya!

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    It was all right. But the music & animation makes up for it, as well with the voice acting of Nimoy, Nelson, Stack, Idle, Stander & Wells.

    I'm guessing for a contrainst like you never seen other movies that had Judd in like New Jack City & the Breakfast Club. Whenever people think of Judd Nelson as Hot Rod/Rodimus, they think of him as Transformer John Bender.
     
  12. TheUltimateBum

    TheUltimateBum Nautica Lover

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    I get that they think of him as a TF version of John Bender, but I dunno, I just always had a different depiction of Hot Rod/Rodimus in my head (a young adult who is incredibly insecure of his own abilities, and the movie just depicted him as being extremely confident in himself, so that kinda makes him a bit bland to me, whereas I thought season three did a much better job at fleshing him out).

    Plus, I felt Judd's Rodimus was pretty forced.
     
  13. Crim

    Crim Well-Known Member

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    Fuck. I always forget that he voiced Rodimus. Thats how much impact he had on me..... Could totally replace him as Rodimus and I wouldnt notice.
     
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  14. PaleMoonlight

    PaleMoonlight Active Member

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    I love Transformers: The Movie...but I do recognise that it isn't perfect. Or particularly original plotwise. But taken within the context of Transformers itself it has shaped the entire continuity and franchise in one way or another. There's some beautiful animation - the Unicron transforming scene comes to mind - some superb use of voice talent (Nimoy as Galvatron was great IMO), and landmark events within the G1 timeline. There's a good sense of humour in the script too, though it does border on pretty cheesy at times. But hey, it's a cult 80s animation after all.

    I have to say also that Vince Dicola's score is for me honestly one of the greatest scores I've ever heard. Amazing atmospheric, dynamic synth work which feels like it belongs to every scene and never goes over the top, always tastefully executed. I don't mind some of their hair metal tracks either though I wouldn't normally listen to it. It's all very much of its time but I like that about it. and the basic story line is based in enough proven tropes of fiction that it manages to be an engaging enough watch, even if it isn't a particularly groundbreaking film in the wider scheme of films.
     
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  15. Mr. Chaos

    Mr. Chaos Head of Illuminati Chapter 517

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    My biggest issue with Transformers: The Movie is that it feels like it is about 5 to 6 episodes of the cartoon that were cut down and turned into a film. You can almost see where one episode begins and the other ends.
     
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  16. Crim

    Crim Well-Known Member

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    Thats my main issue with it. It flows terribly, like there was a ton of content stripped out of it during editing..... Kind of like the Bay movies actually....
     
  17. ErbFan28

    ErbFan28 Well-Known Member

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    Art is completely subjective, and therefore film is subjective. There is no right or wrong way to make a film. It’s entirely up to the viewer. I’ll tell you how I personally feel about the film.

    Transformers: The Movie is my 2nd favorite film of all-time. I think it’s competently animated with moments of brilliant animation. Vince DiCola’s score is incredibly atmospheric. The opening shots of Unicron moving through space (which are beautifully animated) accompanied by ViCola’s ominous score are some of my favorite moments ever. The death of Optimus is a similarly brilliant and atmospheric moment. The slow mo shot of Hot Rod catching the Matrix and holding it up while the awe-inspiring DiCola score plays feels my heart with wonder. There are a lot of moments like this that capture my imagination.
    I love the characters, even if they are kind of one note. I truly care about Hot Rod, Kup, Springer, Arcee and the whole gang. I love the galaxy spanning adventure the characters are taken on. This film introduces us to new worlds, interesting new characters, and really cool new additions to the mythology. Not to mention it’s very quotable. I quote this movie ALL. THE. TIME.

    However, I would also argue that this film is pretty esoteric. If it’s not for you, it’s not for you. So, that makes it hard to recommend to people who are looking to just pass the time with something relatively entertaining. I still regard this film as a masterpiece of sci-fi. But I know it doesn’t have a whole lot of value to the masses.
     
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  18. Danacky

    Danacky New Member

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    Not a cinematic masterpiece but still one of my top 3 films of all time plus the soundtrack still blows me away
     
  19. TFXProtector

    TFXProtector Well-Known Member

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    That's inaccurate. The art is subjective and the viewer's POV parts are the only thing you got right, here. There absolutely is a wrong way to make a film and Uwe Boll is living proof of that. The man revels in doing the worst job possible. Even Lars Von Trier has embraced making movies that make the audience (critics included) go "WTF?!" Even Bay has had his fair share of badly made movies. (not counting Transformers.) The fact that these clearly bad movies made money is more a commentary on the public than it is the directors. We're a pretty sad bunch of humans, we keep funding crap and we should be ashamed of ourselves. (Recent case: Mortal Engines)

    That's great for you, if it makes happy, that's fantastic. Me, personally, it doesn't even register as a blip on my list of favorite films. I think the problem is we look at it with childlike wonder and all of us are clearly stuck living in the past to some degree. We live like we're present and facing forward, but really we're not. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, per se, but it does cloud our judgment sometimes.

    It says something when today's kids don't really embrace it. Some of us have had good experiences with our kids viewing it, but others have clearly had issues with their kids finding it boring, not being "their" Transformers, etc. I think it's a product of its time, much like we are. We're more or less the only ones keeping it alive and relevant.


    I honestly have no use for "One shall stand, one shall fall" outside of this. I get why some consider it quotable, but there are legit classics that are infinitely more so. Sorry, I realize now I sound like I'm crapping all over your post and your opinion, that's not at all my intention. My apologies. I can agree with the rest of this part, though. I think Hot Rod gets a bad rap, sometimes. His intention was pure, his actions were stupid, he's a kid. Kids do exactly that. I understand why people hated him, but I don't think it's right.

    It's definitely a hard sell. I don't even bother trying, really.
     
  20. Mentasm

    Mentasm I check in, but I don't check out.

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    Ooh, a thread where someone starts an innocent discussion asking for opinions about a film and people start tearing into each other. That sort of thing never happens on the Internet...

    Anyway, for what it's worth... I've been reviewing films (well more accurately DVD/Blu-rays) for almost twenty years and in that time I've covered multiple versions of the film across various formats. I've personally owned the UK theatrical cut on VHS, the original Rhino DVD release, the UK Reconstructed and Remastered releases, the Sony 20th Anniversary release, the original UK BD release and, most recently, the remastered UK BD release. I've seen the film more times than I can remember since 1986 and written critical appraisals of it on numerous occasions. Is it a good film? Unsurprisingly, it depends entirely on your point of view.

    There's no denying that it uses every lazy trope in the book. It has its share of pacing, editing and story issues, not to mention the animation errors usually associated with the series. It's also a 'rip off' of numerous other films, notably Star Wars, but then Star Wars itself was 'inspired' by a lot of other stuff so that's hardly a crime. It's loud, it's brash, it's nonsensical... In other words, it's a kids film (something a lot of adults forget).

    I can see all of its flaws, but I still return to it time and time again, unironically I might add. Of course nostalgia plays a big part in this. I've recently turned 43 and so I was the target age during the height of the Transformers' popularity. I loved the toys, but I loved the Marvel comics more. Of course I liked the series, but it was really the printed stories that pulled me in and help explain why I took to the movie. In the UK we had a lot of pre-movie tie-ins with the likes of Target 2006, so I was very familiar with the new characters before I ever saw the film or season three of the show. As such, it wasn't that jarring to see so many of the older characters killed off either. I really liked the designs of the new characters, particularly the reformatted Decepticons and Unicron, and the animation was a step up from the series. I also really liked Vince's score.

    However, I didn't like everything. I can vividly remember hating the rock songs because I didn't think they belonged in a film like Transformers (I wanted an all electronic score) and I really wasn't a fan of the musical number. Wheelie also did my head in. Of course as time went by I grew older and my tastes changed accordingly. When I rewatched the film in the early 2000s on DVD I absolutely loved the rock tracks, largely because in my teens my musical tastes matured and I listened to a lot of metal. Nowadays I can listen to all of the hair metal tracks on that album and garner genuine enjoyment from them (and frequently do, along with the score). I'd also discovered Weird Al in the intervening years, so the musical number became somewhat tolerable on account of my appreciation for Dare to Be Stupid alone (it's still a silly scene though). I can even stand Wheelie and Daniel as I can see them for what they are, characters designed to be relatable to younger viewers.

    So, my honest opinion is that it is a good film, but only because it reminds me of a very specific period in my life. Many of my favourite films hail from that time and a lot of them aren't what would generally be considered 'good'. Starchaser: The Legend of Orin, The Monster Squad, Short Circuit, Masters of the Universe, The Last Starfighter (to name but a few) are all favourites of mine, but are all terribly derivative and/or hokey as hell. I also have the added enjoyment of viewing it again through my son's eyes. He's only just turned four, but he's already starting to enjoy the film and series and it's great when he comes to stay with me and asks if we can watch it. He's also obsessed with the soundtrack and sings along to it in the car, with his favourite being 'Naked Eyes' (better known as Instruments of Destruction)!
     
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