House of M #8. EXTREME SPOILERS HERE IN.

Discussion in 'Comic Books and Graphic Novels' started by PopCulturePooka, Nov 2, 2005.

  1. deathsheadx

    deathsheadx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Posts:
    1,512
    Trophy Points:
    267
    Likes:
    +205
    oh HELL NO.

    we are not get into this.

    shatterstar has been touted as a mutant for years created in mojoworld but a mutant nether the less...his mutant ability is the ability to convert sonic frequencies into a vibratory shockwave that he channels through his sword.

    also while you are of the opinion claremont is at his lowest ebb i am not and i rate his current work higher than bendis... it should also be noted that althrough its less obvious than under bob harras's tenure writers at marvel are suffering from bad editors, stories are cut down before they even get half way some before they even get published...i can site the debacle of the new xmen xtreme xmen beast struggle:

    claremont was given the beast

    claremont structures whole years storyline around the beast

    claremont gets stories aproved, has already written huge chunk of the story

    right before xtreme is to hit the stands grant morrisson decides he wants the beast

    queseda gives him the beast.

    leaving claremont with a year of stories with the main character missing


    and its not just claremont this shit is happening to, crap like this happened to because of bendis's house of m we lost excaliber and district x, the rug was pulled out from under their feet just like that.



    if you arent the superstar writer (bendis, millar, whedon, morrisson) you have no power over your stories and they will get changed to accomidate the superstars

    heck the amount of stuff that claremont has cut by editorial shifts and 'superstar tantrums' is astounding... and the fact he's still able to pull something from the mess the higher-ups have put him in increases my respect for him tenfold...

    now i've gone off topic far enough getting back to house of m it opitimises everything thats wrong with bendis's work the sheer volume of talking heads syndrome in thes books is asstounding people payed for an 8 issue event only to find that it leaves so many loose ends which lead straight into marvels next event...
     
  2. NSJ23

    NSJ23 on TFW2005 for everything but TF's....

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2003
    Posts:
    4,327
    Trophy Points:
    307
    Likes:
    +1,896
    Well I didn't need to be 8 issues but i still enjoyed it even though we knew what would happen thanks to the internet and ruthless fanboys. In issue #8 I think spidermans reaction to having his life messed with yet again were priceless. Much better than that crap ending in HOM spider-man.
     
  3. Wreckgar

    Wreckgar Anthony Stark Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2003
    Posts:
    8,799
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    347
    Likes:
    +403
    Clearmont is lucky they still let him write the top X-Book. Though I agree that the Beast situation sucked for him, he just isn't as high calibur as he once was and he has to move over for the ones people want to read. Sadly, he is getting old, his best years are far behind him, the next generation of golden writers has arrived.

    Also, let's not forget that Clearmont was given charge of the Revolution relaunch and completely screwed that up. Even with the X-Men movie coming out, he still couldn't keep readership.
     
  4. Frequency

    Frequency Formerly Berserker Prime

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Posts:
    183
    Trophy Points:
    91
    Likes:
    +0
    While I agree that Claremont pretty much just gets the character none of the other writers want to write about, I think that might be playing it a bit safe on Marvel's part. I mean, if they're doing some weird f'ed up reality thing like The End he's perfect but a lot of his writing sets off the making-shit-up-o-meter like crazy, so giving him a mainline title might not be the best idea. Another problem I have with him is he's still writing comics like back in the day with the narration bubble "If I can just shoot my eye beams at just the right angle it will bounce off that mirror, off the tin can, and knock magneto's head off"

    I mean, it's cute every once in a while but some of Claremont's comics I read and I just start going "JUST SHUT UP AND DO IT ALREADY!!!!!" I mean... in some cases the character has been around for 30-years or more, there's no longer a need for him to inner-monologue a description of his powers every time he uses them, I think he's well aware by now.
     
  5. Omnibus Prime

    Omnibus Prime I'm too old for this shit TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2003
    Posts:
    6,521
    Trophy Points:
    317
    Likes:
    +5
    Now that..you wanna talk about crap? Thoroughly enjoyed it for four issues and then blammo, it's like #5 was for four completely different prior issues.
     
  6. payres

    payres Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2002
    Posts:
    8,755
    News Credits:
    160
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +6,571
    Ebay:
    I stand corrected, but stand by my Claremont comments.
     
  7. deathsheadx

    deathsheadx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Posts:
    1,512
    Trophy Points:
    267
    Likes:
    +205
    i dont dispute that you believe that claremonts work is as good as the old stuff he did.

    in fact in a way i agree with you claremonts stuff isnt as good as his old stuff when he ran the x-franchise. however i dont place the majority of the blame on claremont... i place it directly at the marvel EIC and editors door step

    marvel have a policy of taking on editors who dont know their stuff and hence dont do their job...which lead to jarring mistakes like serbastion shaw suddenly being a telepath wolverine disapearing in uncanny and reappearing in new avengers the reason for his disappearance not jiving between his own book, claremonts and bendis's

    marvel editorial is notorius especially on the x-franchise for forcing creative teams into changing storylines mid arc, ask waid, PAD, Joe kelly, steven segeal. the editors especialy the EIC places the superstar writers above the others and micro manage everything else. do you think when house of m came along they had any say in how it would efect the stories the writing? they could say: joe thats a crazy idea! i dont want to do it! no they had to just lump it and rewrite storylines to accomedate bendis and queseda's vision if your in the x-franchise its geting harder to write a good story at marvel these days...
     
  8. deathsheadx

    deathsheadx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Posts:
    1,512
    Trophy Points:
    267
    Likes:
    +205
    :stick: 
    okay i'm trying not to get pissed off by the first line of your post. claremont is lucky they still let him write the top X-Book? :banghead:  :banghead: 

    number one he should be high caliber. he steered the xfranchise and molded it into a mega million buck selling phenomenum however instead of giving him the respect he deserves first he gets disrespected by marvel when suddenly the artists are dictating the story not the writers. then he gets shoved to the back of the class for 'the next generation of golden writers' half of whom have no real respect for the source material he himself set up leaving him to play catchup and cleanup. personally i like his old school writing and no one better try to say he's gotten to wordy cause i can show he's always been that wordy.

    number two no he wasnt given charge of the revolution relaunch:

    sure he was on both titles but the editors fucked with his work horrendously...

    let me site examples here.

    he tried to establish continuity between his fantastic four work and his xmen work with the twisted sisters.

    marvel allowed lenil frances yu to redesign the characters without his say so therefore making the point he was trying to get across garbage(not to mention yu couldn't keep his work consistant from one page to the next)

    also he was forced by marvel to abandon the summers school arc he was planning

    then he was forced to once again scrap a whole years worth of storyline because the editors suddenly decided that they wanted the two seperate teams together. which meant he had to hastily tie two storylines that had nothing to do with each other, together at very short notice

    claremont gets the shaft constantly.

    look lets not turn this into a bash claremont thread cause for every bash i can site examples of where he got screwed by marvel editorial... if you know his old work you know his stories take their time to reach the big pay off. the problem is marvel is too impatient nowadays and cant wait for the pay off so stories suddenly get cut, making them look like poorly written stuff, which is kind of ironic considering how bendis and his decompressed storytelling is allowed and when people complain about how each arc doesnt give a satisfactory ending they're told that dont worry its all part of a mega arc and there will be a big payoff.
     
  9. Wreckgar

    Wreckgar Anthony Stark Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2003
    Posts:
    8,799
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    347
    Likes:
    +403
    So far Bendis has always had a payoff. I'll admit, something he does is throw to much stuff at once into a book and it gets washed in with other happeneings. However, he does always rectify it.

    And no, I don't believe Clearmont is one of the greats, anymore. Back is the day, his work was extraordinary. I love it. Now it's not. Reading his work is like watching an episode of Dragonball. Talk talk talk talk, punch, talk talk talk talk. optic blast. And one example where Clearmont got his way was God Loves Man Kills 2. And that sucked also. Though I will be amused to see what "editorial" did to him there where they actually let him ride with Striker and left Austen to dry.

    I know you like Clearmont. We go through this all the time. Occasioally he will have a jem of a book inbetween issues and issues of sub par stuff. I throughly enjoyed The End. I can't stand his Uncanny stuff. There's a lot of older writes that just don't have it anymore. Not saying they weren't good at one time. But that time has passed.
     
  10. deathsheadx

    deathsheadx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Posts:
    1,512
    Trophy Points:
    267
    Likes:
    +205
    this is the last i'm going to say on this subject cause we're straying from house of m.

    1. i never said that bendis didnt have a payoff i'm saying that nowadays if claremont or most of the 'oldschool' writers draw out a payoff like he does they will get reamed for it.

    2. you really dont know what happened with god loves man kills 2 do you?

    god loves man kills 2 was another case of marvel editorial dictating what was going to happen in the books... it was marvel not claremont that wanted to so the GLMK2 to tie into the xmen2 movie but they had nowhere to put it they didnt want to interfere with morrison or austens runs and since he wrote the original they told him to write it or they'll get someone else to do it inside xtreme xmen. this meant that once again as in the beast debacle claremont was forced to shread a couple of months stories to make way for an editorial mandated story staring deathstryke and striker forget the fact that deathstryke had nothing to do with stryker in the firstplace they wanted it to have recognisable characters in it.

    ususally a writer has at least 3 to 6 months to plot out a story then write it he had to write the whole GLMK2 in less than 2 months...

    3. oh and before anybod tries to bring up arena...

    arena was originally supposed to be an original graphic novel claremont had finished writing it and the art was half done around the time of the revolution. it basicly sat on the shelf for around 3 or 4 years and then suddenly editorial decided instead of releasing it as an original graphic novel claremont should plonk it in xtreme as well(it has in part to do with marvels policy on OGN's the dont believe they can sell) this meant claremont had to dust off a story that was at least 3 years old franticly re write it so it fits with the tone of xtreme xmen have it redrawn in parts which once again meant more of claremonts planned stores get junked, he suddenly has to change what remains to fit with arena and do it within a small window of time... xtreme xmen is nothing like the way it was originally planned by claremont, neither was excaliber vol 2 or unncanny.( an example from uncanny would be the induction of x23 claremont didnt ask for her. he was suddenly told he had to write a story with her in it...

    the point is a lot of what you seem to be bringing up as evidence of him being passed it has been largely due to editorial mandate.

    do i believe he can do no wrong?

    hell no of course he's written stinkers... i'm just saying that a lot of the problems with his current stuff should not be heaped on his shoulders...
     
  11. thefrozenred

    thefrozenred 4 8 15 16 23 42

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2003
    Posts:
    8,909
    Trophy Points:
    211
    Likes:
    +0
    Ebay:
    House of M feels for Marvel like what Identity Crisis was for DC...a prequel to the REAL crisis.

    Those last two pages? About "equal and opposite reactions?" That's going to be the REAL crisis, when it shows up in a year or two...HoM just set the foundation. The worst is yet to come, I predict.



    Alternatively, I'm in the boat that this mutant business will be reversed within a few years. It'll be discovered that Wanda just figured out how to SUPPRESS the gene, and then someone will come along and UNsuppress it or some bull.


    I am worried about Xavier, though, being caught in Layla Miller's body and all...(speculation on my part, btw).
     
  12. Switchblade

    Switchblade Just a raggedy man

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Posts:
    14,492
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +1,263
    Sound speculation, if you ask me.
     
  13. McBradders

    McBradders James Franco Club! Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2002
    Posts:
    34,127
    Trophy Points:
    356
    Likes:
    +3
    I wll just say this.

    House of M: Spider-Man was fucking bullshit. I want my money, my time, and my virginity back.
     
  14. Wreckgar

    Wreckgar Anthony Stark Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2003
    Posts:
    8,799
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    347
    Likes:
    +403
    Are you done? Good. It was stated in an interview with Austen that he wanted to use Striker for his Uncanny story. However Clearmont also wanted to use him to do GLMK2. With Clearmont being senior writer on X-Books, he was given the character.

    And I've met Clearmont, all he cares about are sales on his books. He tried getting me to order extra copies of The End when he saw my dealer badge at WW. Then scoffed at me when I politely declined. Then on the other hand I met Millar at the same con and talked with him for 1/2 an hour just shooting the shit with some other fans. Saw my badge and asked more about business than what of his I was selling.


    AND NOW
    I finally read HoM 8 and am sorely disappointed. Peter was pissed off and rightfully so but anyone not reading SM HoM wouldn't know why. Also everything seemed to cut away. To much going on. A page of this, 2 of that, back to something else for a page... It was crap. I want to see what's up with Hawkeye. I want to know why Wanda isn't on radar. I want more and there is no way I am shelling out cash for Genesis, Decimation, 198, Son of M, and whatever other books come out of this. I alreayd bought a ton of books relating to it, no more.
     
  15. Frequency

    Frequency Formerly Berserker Prime

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Posts:
    183
    Trophy Points:
    91
    Likes:
    +0
    I took Wanda not being on radar to mean that she un-mutanted herself too. I think it would make sense to do it so that even if people found her they couldn't put back what she un-did.

    Which granted, I never read much with Scarlet Witch in it before Dissassembled(and then it was mostly alt. reality stuff anyway) but the panels where they show her smiling actually made my skin crawl, she's a fictional villian that's actually gotten under my skin, and that's part of why I loved House of M so much. Like it or not she's the best X-villian to come along since Sublime.
     
  16. Wreckgar

    Wreckgar Anthony Stark Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2003
    Posts:
    8,799
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    347
    Likes:
    +403
    Well there haven't been to many X-Villains since sublime :D 

    But I don't think of her as a villain. She's more of a hero who's heart was in the wrong place. Instead of doing what was right, she thought of herself.
     
  17. Frequency

    Frequency Formerly Berserker Prime

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Posts:
    183
    Trophy Points:
    91
    Likes:
    +0
    Well that's kinda how I thought about her at the end of Disassembled. Then she exterminate her whole race off the face of the Earth just to stick it to her dad because her and Pietro have daddy issues.

    Which is part of why I think one of the most interesting things to come out of Decimation will be Magneto's developement from here-on-out. He's been supremely f'ed with in the last few years. First the entire mutant utopia he had created on Genosha was wiped off the face of the Earth, then he was apparently framed for what happened in New X-men. Finds out his daughter is nuts in the wake of rebuilding Genosha, rescues her and tries to help her. When no help can be found her and Pietro lash out creating a world based ruled by their father based on what they believe is his utopia and again, blaming it on him. Wanda lashes out her powers again, this time from anger toward her father, and once again the mutant race Magneto has fought so hard for has been massively wiped out... Magneto now being a victim himself. I can not even imagine the state of mind this guy is in right now.
     
  18. Switchblade

    Switchblade Just a raggedy man

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Posts:
    14,492
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +1,263
    Wanda Maximoff... Villain? Hero?

    All I know is she's walking around with a smile on her face while thousands of mutants just had their lives ruined.

    I really want to hit her right in the face with a very large fish. :stick: 
     
  19. DevilzFan

    DevilzFan CobraIsland.com Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Posts:
    17,558
    Trophy Points:
    342
    Likes:
    +2
    I wouldn't say ruined. There are alot of mutants out there that desperately wanted to get rid of their powers. Wither from the New Mutants, Chamber, Morlocks, etc.
     
  20. Omnibus Prime

    Omnibus Prime I'm too old for this shit TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2003
    Posts:
    6,521
    Trophy Points:
    317
    Likes:
    +5
    Totally agree. There'll be ripples in all the DeciMation stuff, 198 and other books and some other mini where it all comes to a head...again.