Not denying that that's the case. Just disputing people's claims that there were next to no hints to Glitch being the one.

 

I am not ready to give up the series yet. I see some of the Criticism to valid though and I enjoy it too much still.

 

Heck, some of the Glitch hints were disguised as Roller hints-

"Here, read Megatron's book," Hands to Roller... while Glitch watches

 

I read it at the shop. I don't buy it; I'm not liking it. Poor decisions are being made behind the scenes. Milne should be on the book.

That entire fiasco bothers me less in hindsight, but it was definitely drawn out far too long.

Chris is right on this one. I wasn't a fan of the Glitch reveal. It annoyed me. The bluff, to me, was a bit overplayed, but it worked in hindsight.
Glitch's head and Tarn's head (the side) are identical. There was plenty of evidence pointing to both characters being behind the mask.
Still, I'd argue that the entire second season was just lackluster compared to the first. Plus the swearth issue (was it two?) was silly. It messed up the flow of the book. I feel like the issue should've been a one-shot.

 

Even if the book had not dropped significantly in quality, the whole radio silence from Roberts about the Milne debacle had me lose a lot of respect for him. I don't want to support creators that treat other creators so poorly.

It certainly helps that it's been on such a noticeable (and lengthy) downward spiral art and writing-wise, but even if it were not I would have dropped it simply because I didn't like what happened to Milne. That being said, I *totally* get that many people don't have quite such a hardline stance as I do, and that's understandable too.

I've seen that comment many times over the history of Robert's books. I don't think it's picking up anytime soon, at least not from historical precedent.  

Oh the head crush was *for sure* a herring as well. That exact panel Optimus says, "Do you not feel a sense of deja vu?" It's not a vaguely similar stance either. It was deliberate intent, particularly knowing what people have said about how detailed Roberts lays out his scripts.

 

Last of my numerous replies...

I caught:
"Point is his original work was subtle. The world building and concepts were subtle, every character had a unique voice of their own, the writing for each character felt different and natural. That is all gone."

I noticed the first downward "swing" happened around the time most of his world building ideas needed to be thrown away or revised (close to the time the first crossover occurred). If so, I can hardly blame him for maybe being a little less passionate - perhaps he thought he had far more control over the "world building" aspect than he originally did and more ability to seed plotlines without a different mandate interfering. *shrug*

 

I don't understand why threads like this exist.

 

Yeah, mid-season pacing was awful. What James needed to do was get the Vis Vitalis involved with the fight above Ofsted, have Mainframe/Bluestreak/First Aid/Trailbreaker run into Velocity and Thunderclash on the surface, delete 41-43 from existence, and have Swerve complain off and on about a hurting shoulder and have it operated on in issue 40, then jump to the Necroworld story then. Scavengers and Speak, Memory could have been one-parters as well.

 

Its obvious now but the fact that Tarn and Glitch have the same circular design on the sides of their heads is a huge give away that completely went unnoticed originally. I think even if it were pointed out before the reveal, some readers would have just said it was a coincidence since Glitch was such a minor character.

 

Ok?

 

I don't know why replies like this exist.

"I don't like MTMTE/LL anymore and does anyone else agree?" is what this thread is about.

But so did numerous characters, like Skids and Roller.

 

Darn. That's true isn't it. I thought Glitch was the only one since the reveal.

 

To put forward my point of view, Season 2 is actually growing on me in retrospect, as while there were pacing issues, with some distance from them I'm remembering the good moments more-so, and I did really dig the DJD plot and the subversion of their hollowness.

Season 3, I'm honestly simply enjoying. I do see places where I'd want it to be stronger, mostly Rodimus, but I like Anode's story unfolding and I like the Functionist world plot and the Anti-Vocationist League and it does feel like it's building and staying more on-point than S2.


Which of course doesn't invalidate anyone's criticisms, just presenting my side of the coin.

 

100%. And outside of a few posts, I've really appreciated and enjoyed this discussion.

 

On the topic of Glitch, my problem with that was there wasn't enough subtly to back it up. You want to make a red herring of Roller being Tarn? Absolutely, go for it, just include more subtle hints about Glitch too, things that when you go back and reread it say "Oh damn, why didn't I notice that instead!" Moments like this.

There needed to be slightly more. Maybe Blip in his last moments, instead of reaching for his mask, he should have found a subtle hint that Tarn was a former Empurta victim. Or he should have stopped machinery once more. There needed to be a little more in Glitch's court, and I don't think there was enough. In #36, maybe he should have received hands again, he needed to have something. That's all.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Moving onto Lost Light, I feel as if it's cluttered up a bit at the moment, and needed a break from the grand event that was Dying of the Light. Now for the most part, I actually really liked it. But opening up with a 6 parter? Too big. Here's what I would have done.

I think it's important at this point to have shown the Lost Light at this point. The Functionalist universe is interesting in my book, but I didn't think we needed to open with this. Instead, we should have seen what has been going on with Getaway. Perhaps it should have opened up with Getaway receiving the Council's message basically saying "Yeah we double crossed you, all the Autobots will die." And as far as Getaway should have known, he just killed off everyone. Then this can explode into a bigger issue as word gets out to the LL, and half the crew regrets making the choice to send them away, assuming they all just died horrible deaths at the hands of Overlord. Then some incident happens, and it demonstrates Getaway's inability to be an effective captain. It didn't need to be a big threat, let's say space pirates or something that doesn't require a lot of effort, and all it does is shows how bad they are without everyone they just got rid of. This could contrast with making the next arc with the Functionalists, and showing Megatron as an effective leader, prove why he was necessary on the Lost Light by showing what they got into beforehand without them.

As it stands, I think the Functionalist Universe arc is okay aside from the bit about being too big, and it's definitely drawn out a bit, Anode could have been cut entirely.

 

I really like all of your thoughts. Glitch needed far more than the tiny stuff he had to be "fair play" and satisfactory. Because it IS an interesting take, executed poorly.

Cut out anode and you have three issues. But I'm on record noting that both reboots, this and op, should have led with less than six issue entry arcs. Neither has handled it well; I've simply enjoyed OP more and am certainly less disappointed in it and issues around it. Griffith left on his own terms, for instance.

The circumstances have 100% cast a shadow on my enjoyment or potential enjoyment of the book. If Milne was on it no question I would be infinitely more forgiving of a stumbling arc. The art alone would improve the story; as it stands, the actual art has negative impact on the story being told. But the behind the scenes crap has never sat right with me and I simply don't think I can shake it off.

Particularly in light of James' radio silence.

 

Thing about the Tarn reveal is that it tossed out a fairly interesting character evolution for a cheap ham-fisted "shocking" twist. I mean, you can read between the lines with Glitch for a story about a victim of oppression who became that very same oppressor, but as it is the reveal basically renders two characters as nobodies.


Anyways, I jumped ship around that "Swearth" issue, and the series really hasn't done anything to draw me back in. It's too bad, but we'll always have the first season...

 

I'm still 100% on board. Lost Light and MTMTE aren't perfect but they've both given us so many new characters (and characterizations of old ones) and situations that have just been wonderful additions to TF fiction. MTMTE was the first time I felt like the Transformers were being treated as a real science fiction concept. It fleshed out a consistent vision for their religious beliefs, physical construction, reproduction process, political systems, romantic/friendship concepts and status among the rest of galactic society. Its given us stories that have made many of us laugh and cry on different pages.

In our past we've had years and years of "I'm a good guy and your a bad guy, lets fight". We had time periods where the human characters overpowered the stories because the writers couldn't figure out how the robots think or why we should care about them. We've seen versions of the G1 story repeated again and again with little overall variation. Other times its gone so intentionally away from G1 that other than them transforming there wasn't a lot recognizable about what I at least love about the stories. We're in a place now where the best characters from all eras and toylines are able to show up and interact in interesting ways without all the baggage of their individual continuities.

This is really feels to me like a golden age of TF fiction and, while it isn't all perfection, I look forward to every issue greatly. Just the fact this board can still be arguing about the Tarn reveal almost a year later says to me that these stories mean a lot to all of us.

 

I personally feel it's too soon to tell with Anode. We now know who she is but we don't know her wider arc role. Especially considering her job, she could go in ways we don't currently see.

There's no right move on James' part, I don't think. Criticizing the bosses is not a good move, and whatever he may feel in private, coming out in public could cause things to blow up bigger.

 

If there was a general MtMtE/LL discord/dissent thread that would make enough sense, it just seems like one of these pops up every couple months.

Anode is there for a reason other than to bother people. I don't know what it is, but nobody just shows up in these books, especially not characters who don't have upcoming toys.

Plus, is he supposed to throw Jack Lawrence under the bus? Even if he was as bad as previous IDW fill-ins (and I don't even see that major of a departure from Milne's style, much less a significant drop in quality), that's neither a smart way to market your book nor a fair way to treat your new artist.