Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by WolverineDragon, Aug 16, 2021.
Thanks my Throat feels better
Rebirth had some decent ideas but you can see the budget was smaller and the story was a bit cut down (it was planned as a 5 parter). Headmasters was clearly more aimed at the Japanese domestic both in story and format so while I'm not a massive fan it did it's job and the animation was better even if I feel like it was a little too pastel (I do enjoy the S3/Rebirth strong colours). The silver lining is that Master Force and Victory were more of a course correction.
That is a hard one. I guess I would pick Rebirth now, but if they just redubbed the sound and voices in Japanese Headmasters properly I would probably like Headmasters season better.
Rebirth handled the headmasters and target masters origin better on planet Nebulus.
Transformers went downhill a lot that season on both Rebirth and Headmasters.
"Fortress maximus can enlarge" "fortress maximus has come himself"
I actually enjoyed Rebirth despite its flaws. I guess I was just able to see through all the compromises and appreciate the worldbuilding endeavor that David Wise was going for. Plus I liked Cerebros, wish we could have had a full season of him leading a team on Nebulos while Optimus runs things back on Cybertron.
Headmasters was just bland to me, didn't have anything interesting going on and focused WAY too much on Wheelie and Daniel. Seriously how the hell did those two become the only returning characters in Headmasters to get an increase in screen time and prominence compared to G1?
Meanwhile Rebirth had zero Wheelie, and Daniel gets crippled. Wins for that alone, really.
Neither of them are particularly good, which is what I voted for.
Rebirth suffers from a truncated production, cut down from a potential proper season 4, to 5 episodes to finally 3. The art and animation are all typical AKOM work of the time, so very unflattering. Especially jarring when coming off Return of Optimus Prime's work from Toei. It's very obvious that more was supposed to be explored with the concepts presented but all simply ends on an unresolved cliffhanger. Not a fan. Would ignore again.
Headmasters on the other hand suffers for almost the entirely opposite issues. A drawn out story that realistically could be cut down by 1/3 and you wouldn't lose much, if anything. The art is definitely much more consistent and on model but the animation is incredibly stiff and at times lifeless, something typical of most cheaply done anime. Plot threads and story beats are completely nonsensical, even mind-numbingly insulting that make both established and new characters look stupid and idiotic. If not for the hilariously bad dub, I would never honestly recommend this series to any TF fan, new or old.
I personally think once Takara got wind of Hasbro cancelling any further plans for more future animated TF content, they went into a panic and had to try and scramble to make sure they had something to be ready to air once their dub of season 3 had finished. This was their first fully original TF series production, so they hadn't exactly yet established much of the original concrete details other than what they had imported from Hasbro + what little side media they made in the interim.
Rebirth was a nice ending for the original saga - but The Headmasters series meant that it continued.
Despite the overall season being somewhat lackluster, I do enjoy Headmaster's first three episodes more than the three episodes of Rebirth - so it wins by default. Unfortunately, we do kind of get a sense of where Season 4 was supposed to go thanks to TOEI using some of the abandoned scripts early in their series.
I do think Rebirth would get renewed interest if Hasbro would go ahead and just give us a new continuation of the series. Since The Rebirth ends with all the Autobots getting resurrected, you could have '84-'86 characters that got killed off return while both introducing new characters and using 1987 characters moving forward. There's no reason that characters from other series couldn't show up in their traditional appearance, either. Characters like Bulkhead, Drift, Knockout, etc. could all be introduced as actual rubber-stamped "G1 era" characters officially.
Sorry if I misunderstood what you meant but you seem to be indicating that characters that died prior to the events of the rebirth would also be resurrected (Ironhide,Prowl ext)
If that’s the case can I ask you why you feel that way because I see absolutely no indication of that and only those on cybertron that were killed/out of energy were Resurrected
And for the record I don’t think any of those guys were killed/dead at that point just out of energy
I wanted to like Headmasters.. Way back in the late 90s when screenshots of the show surfaced on the new internet, it felt like this unobtainable holy grail of Transformer awesomeness.. Then I finally watched it a couple of years later... Both original and some of the dubbed episodes. And boy, all the build up hype was gone in seconds. It's just too adapted to the Japanese market. Dialogue, the humor, the character movement/expression etc. I really missed that little banter between characters or just a one liner every now and then that gave the bots some personality in the Sunbow cartoon. Takara didn't get that aspect of Transformers at all. And because of that, tension doesn't really build and fights feel empty and generic, at least to me. There are some (what could've been) epic (combiner) fights in the first episodes, but it's just punching and lasers, no dialogue at all!
So it's Rebirth for me all the way. David Wise did an excellent job.
There's no indication either way. And many of the Autobots that actually DIED in the conflict did come back to life. No reason to think other Autobots didn't do the same, actually.
Granted, we don't know how many Autobots actually died or didn't because of AKOM errors.
I guess my thoughts are that, if Hasbro wants to bring back the likes of Ironhide and Prowl, they can say Vector Sigma brought them back at the end of Rebirth along with everyone else in the conflict. I mean, the Decepticons were burning bodies...that's not just being depowered, either.
I don't really see any evidence that any Autobots did die during The Rebirth. And I don't recall any bodies actually being burned. They just took out some power packs from them. But their bodies were still in tact. Whose body was burned that came back to life?
I really saw no indication that any of those Autobots “Actually Died“.....
For one, no one turned gray
Two, I seriously doubt they would have been allowed to show so many deaths on screen........They could’ve ended up with an R rating and that would’ve never been allowed on TV and
Brainstorm even said “they will all die soon without energon”...... Seems to be indicating they were still alive
Even if for arguments sake I accept that those in “the rebirth“ died And we’re resurrected I don’t see how that could’ve applied to any of the characters that died in the movie
Big reason is that their bodies were destroyed on the Autobot mausoleum in Dark Awakening
The way I see it they were just drained of energy I’ve had the power packs removed and we’re all Re-energized when the cybertron was
What made you think that?
The only fires I saw were coming from the massive rocket engines that was propelling the planet twards earth
Sure the bodies were stacked near but, but the bodies were brought there to take out their power packs to file the rocket , Galvatron said as much, we evrn see them stacking the bodies and taking out the power packs
Perhaps I'm misremembering on the burning of the bodies in that the stacks were just juxtapositioned with fires. I remember watching it not that long ago and thinking just how horrific it actually was for a kids show, despite the horrible AKOM animation. I guess that can be a project of mine...screen shot the devastation of Rebirth.
Well, regardless, that doesn't mean Hasbro couldn't say it happened anyway. Vector Sigma is basically a magic gumball.
I love magical gumballs
When me and a friend got ahold of bootleg VHS copies of the Omni dub of Headmasters, Masterforce, and Victory back in the late 90's, it felt like experiencing a 2nd childhood. I didn't even care that the dubbing was pretty bad. I was just happy to watch more Transformers cartoons set in the G1 era.
I wish we could get a proper English dub of Japanese G1. But even with the Omni dub we have, I'll take the more than 100 new Transformers episodes over just 3 episodes of Rebirth.
BTW, for those who don't know, the Brave series ExKaiser almost acts as an alternate universe to Transformers. In many ways, it's the logical next step after Zone but was produced by Sunrise in association with Takara in 1990. The trainbots in the series are actually an abandoned Transformers concept and the good guys (robot space cops) fight evil Dinobots - as in they're literally the Dinobots in black.
You can check it out here:
Yuusha Exkaiser - Episode 01 - Our Family Car is an Alien!? (VHS Audio) - YouTube
I was thinking about this same thing. It could be much in the same vein as what IDW did by continuing the Marvel Comics' story in Regeneration One.
I'd be much happier if instead of an English dub of Headmasters, that we'd get a new English script. While I do get tired of reading "We must save the Commander. Yes, Commander!" in the subtitles, it isn't clear that hearing this same stilted dialogue would be any better in English. Do a "Robotech" and completely re-work the script based on some simple editing of the existing animation. Give some writers the chance to flesh out these characters and provide some plot as to what the hell is going on. The events would still end up occurring but there would be all kinds of opportunities to make this a better series. For example, there doesn't seem to be any reason Spike and Galvatron need to be negotiating a joint energy development project since "a joint energy development project" is never shown on screen. Just have a radio message that Galvatron has planted a bomb in Daniel's head or something more exciting for Spike to get all worried about and the meeting turns into a hostage crisis. Explain why the parents would let their kid go off into a long space battle to chase the Decepticons when he should be home and going to school. (Although if I were Spike I'd love to get Daniel out of the house to spend more time with Carly). They could also make Cyclonus menacing again and not as a comedy duo with Scourge.
I prefer Headmasters mainly because the heads are bots and not very double jointed green humanoids
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