I mean bro, you write that you don’t want to be “insulted” by Mattel but then some portion of fans go out of their way to trash and bring down things they don’t like. If you want respect, why don’t you advocate for mutual respect? Some of us like these changes or maybe we don’t like them but don’t feel compelled to completely bring down those things we don’t like.

The thing is that it’s not even about not liking something, it’s about creating this concerted effort to bring something down because it doesn’t cater to you. So you have folks actively organizing efforts to bomb reviews, comments sections and creating endless angry reaction videos.

So it’s not even about “let the market” decide. It’s about a group of fans deciding that this shouldn’t exist for anyone to enjoy.

How can you be angry for not being heard when you don’t want other fans or potential fans to be heard too. I mean, your post isn’t even about the show but about your needs. It’s: “yeah there’s this new show, but let me tell you instead what I need and I need to be heard.”

We need to make space for everyone at the table but it’s hard to do that when some folks only want to be the ones allowed at the table.

 

Considering that Classics was in production for well over a decade and Club Grayskull only seemed to stop because Mattel discontinued Classics, I think that saying that the company "occasionally market to a long time consumer base" is either patently false or woefully ignorant.

Did you forget Origins can't exist without appealing to actual long time fans by implementing a reimplementation of the 5.5" figure format? It makes no sense for Mattel to reintroduce the vintage MotU form factor without some serious consideration for actual MotU fans. The aesthetic of squat muscle bound men doesn't jive with contemporary accepted standards for visual appeal, especially to kids. You either have the anime skinny boy aesthetic or the outlandishly chonky aesthetic. Vintage 5.5" MotU doesn't fit into this. We're god damn lucky we have Origins and that Mattel was willing to invest in the tooling they needed to make the toyline.

You make it out as if Mattel is all Mr. Burns, behind some desk, cackling as mental giants like Kevin Smith shoots his mouth off in ill conceived interview engagement. Mattel isn't the friend of the "fan" but they sure hell aren't the enemy either. Don't make it out to be a matter of a multi billion dollar company having to be either with or against fans. It's about money. At the end of the day, the calculated risks they take aren't going to involve willful malicious intent against someone with a dollar to throw their way.

Has Mattel made miscalculations? Hell yes! Their handling of MotU after their early success says it all! Anyone who actually knows something about the history of the MotU brand knows that Mattel sunk their own ship and has been trying to recapture their initial early success, to no avail.

MotU is irrelevant in today's toy market without adapting to the times. Even in 2007/2008 when Classics was launched, Mattel went to the direct to consumer model for the toyline because it probably wouldn't have lasted as long as it did without doing so. Going full on retail with an early '80s brand with little to no contemporizing would be product suicide.

Honestly, it's absurd that people still think mega corporations give a flying fudge about tweets or upvotes or whatever on social media. It factors into their PR department's operations but that's about it.

The vast majority of the vocal opposition are not actual fans or collectors of MotU. They're the equivalent of people who show up to a Super Bowl party, wear a crisp new jersey, and say they're football fans. They weren't here before the SB and they're gone right after.



These alleged "fans" privately harassed people like James Eatock for simply not voicing an opinion about Revelation right away.

These alleged "fans" offer little thorough knowledge of the brand lore or history of product lines.

These alleged "fans" offer little contribution to discussions because these same "fans" only chime in to say what is "wrong" with things. They hardly comment on anything that could be "right". It's ALL TERRIBLE TRASH according to them.

These alleged "fans" only hop into a thread to snipe every once in a while, at most, and then disappear if they don't intend to be shit disturbers and create incessant arguing.

Never do they give insightful solutions or alternatives.

Never do they give any indication of consideration for the health and well being of the brand and its continued growth.

The fact that we have this kind of BS tangent happening in this discussion thread is ridiculous.

True fans of MotU should be rejoicing that Mattel has invested millions in a multi project entertainment media plan to try to get MotU back on the map. Mattel has never done this before, to this scale, with MotU, since the '80s during the height of the brand's success.

I would love for Netflix's He-Man and the Masters of the Universe to be something I can enjoy thoroughly but if it isn't, I don't care. I want it to do well with the target demographic. I want it to accomplish what Mattel sets out for its objective.

This cartoon is a means to an end. For me, that end is the continued success and flourishment of MotU.

Because.

I

Am

A

Fan

Of

MotU

 

Comments being disabled on Netflix Futures videos is standard, since it's "children's content" and per YouTube's current policy, content directed at children doesn't get a comment section. But yeah, the Like/Dislike ratio is absolutely bizarre. Given some of the comments I've seen, it's not hard to figure out the why...But lets not drag that drama into this thread.

 

Well since people clearly don't want to hear an alternative opinion I will say my piece and what most people who'se feedback is not listened to: go spend my money somewhere else.
I have 3 castle Greyskulls including the matty collectors one, I have 45 matty collectors figures and around 30 other ones from the older lines. I used to go to comic con and by their exclusives there.I have various DVD box sets of the filmation and 2002 and other series. I have various huge artbooks that set me back $50 or more each. I bought the comics when they came out. I have spent around $8,000 or more in the last few years on He-man products including making my own 1/6 figures. But I'm not fan enough. I'm apparently not entitled to express and dislike of the direction of MOTU show because If I do I'm not fan enough and my opinion doesn't matter. I've voiced a negative opinion about revelations and this series has things I'm not fond of, I expressed my displeasure, but apparently I'm in the wrong for doing so. Because I'm not fan enough. I only know what I like and this isn't it, but apparently I'm not allowed to dislike the way these series because they weren't made for me, well since they aren't making anything for me I'll go find another property to like and spend money on that. Then if these series don't do well I don't want to hear any BS on lack of support or any of that crap. I'm sure my money is a drop in the bucket an it won't matter. But the problem is others also feel the same and they too will go spend their money somewhere else. Sure there are some acting overly negative and ''Hating Everything" but there are those that simply don't like something we have supported for a long time and when we express our dislike are told go away we don't need you, your wrong, it's not for you. Go away troll. Some like me say something before we go. But most just shut up and say nothing and leave. I hope they do make some money on all this because they aren't getting any more of mine. And I hope you uber fans get what you want and they get more viewers, but if your wrong and all those dislikes are from people like me who used to spend a lot of money on the brand, then well the brand is gonna lose a lot of money.

Now feel free to insult my level of fandom some more. I've stopped caring.

 

You don't need to respond to me because I'm not looking to argue just for the sake of arguing. However, I will always respond to people on a forum if I believe it to be necessary.

Frankly, you're playing the victim. Whether I or anyone else levels insults or doesn't present counter points, that's up for public and moderator scrutiny. I didn't insult anyone. I called out people who don't contribute to discussion and who camouflage the justification for their outrage under guise of being fans.

While I quoted you previously and was initially responding directly to you, I wasn't specifically speaking about you in the second half of my post. I was addressing all critics in all commentary platforms who show up to say something is terrible but offer no solutions and show a purely self concerned perspective on their criticisms, having no concern for MotU.

You propagated the narrative of corporation vs the fan/collector, that Mattel only "occasionally" markets to longtime customers. I disagree with that notion. To qualify that belief, I clearly stated that the mere existence of product lines like Classics and Origins demonstrates that on some level, Mattel caters to fans over extended periods of time.

To me being a fan means more than accumulating merchandise. It means caring enough about the brand to want others to enjoy it even if you don't.

You can dislike nearly everything about MotU and still be a fan. It's all about how you communicate your fandom, not how many dollars you've spent or how much plastic you've amassed.

By your logic, you must be more fan than I am because I haven't spent as much money on merchandise.

This thread is about the upcoming MotU cartoon designed for kids. Your post that I quoted has nothing to do with it specifically. You were airing your view on how Mattel brought negativity on itself by its perceived practices involving fandom.

So far, as far as I've seen, no one from the production team working on this Netflix "He-Man and the Masters of the Universe" has done or said a thing towards fandom. Don't bring in issues from other MotU projects into here as if they're one and the same.

 

1,000 fans willing to spend $8,000 on your property is less desirable than 100,000 fans willing to spend $100. Or 1,000,000 willing to spend just $20.

For big franchises, it isn't about having a super-passionate audience. It's about having a super-broad audience. Mattel wants MotU to be a big franchise again. If they have to lose some or all of the 1,000 to gain the other 100,000, it's worth it. But, of course, the original 1,000 don't like that fact. Which is totally understandable.

 

Exactly!

If Mattel shuts out a certain portion of customers, it's not out of apathy or malice, it's a business decision! I know that it can be tough when nothing from a brand resonates with me, which is why I sympathize with @Tekkaman Blade even when I don't see eye to eye with him. At the same time, look at the plethora of things MotU related we have access to because it has had wide appeal and success in the past.

That we have both mass appeal, lower common denominator product lines co-existing with collector oriented product lines in MotU is a rarity. Most toy brands are either one or the other.

Being part of TF, MotU, and some other fandom that have ongoing product lines, I can easily take it for granted, which is why I do my best to be appreciative when I can be take part in things that are to my preferences.

I want something like this kid centric show and product line to exist and hopefully perform well so that things like Classics can return, whether in the form of a line revival or potential successor like Masterverse.

I'm not a fan of live action TF movies but I'm grateful when they succeed so that Hasbro has funding for the TF brand as a whole.

This isn't to say we should blindly and arbitrarily support any and all MotU projects but it would be nice to see more effort in constructive criticism from anyone who feels strongly. Even people who like something can still offer suggestions for improvement. Plenty of criticisms have been given to Revelation from people who enjoyed it.

I'm sure this new cartoon will have things to examine for criticism but I don't want to ignore the fact we have something to criticize in the first place. So many other beloved brands have little more than vintage toys and one or maybe two iterations at most to be a fan over.

 

Yes. Ideally, any MotU fan should want what we have with Transformers - too much to keep up with. You don't have to buy/watch Cyberverse to keep up with a MP collection or follow the IDW books. You get to pick and choose and that's a privilege. So pick the stuff you like and ignore the rest instead of hating on it. Learn to recognize when you're not the target audience and accept that most of the time you won't be.

 

They tried something different with She-Ra with the new Princess show. Some of it I liked, some I disliked.

This can go the same way, and should be allowed to go the same way. More universes, more variants of creative exploration/diversity, more choice and liking for everyone.

 

Very much so.

And I don't want to be misconstrued by anyone due to my optimistic support of MotU or TF or anything else.

I'm not saying fans should eat crap and thank the producers of these things. I'm simply saying that the situation has multiple facets and it's not usually the case that the corporation has it out for the fandom.

They may be terrible at conducting engagement, be it in social media or fan events or product conception and deployment (distribution issues with Origins, I'm looking at you!) but it's apparent that out of the massive amount of personnel involved in large operations, some individuals definitely care about fans. Individuals in key points of authority who greenlight fan oriented initiatives or get such initiatives greenlit.

Money and the desire to accumulate as much as possible is the basic drive for business. Toy production is big business. Mattel, Hasbro, etc. desire money but they don't go out of their way to aggravate fans in order to get that money for the simple reason that purposeful aggravation doesn't normally equate to profit.

 

Another aspect of being a multifaceted situation is the part where what constitutes something being "crap" is largely subjective. Which isn't to say that there aren't legitimate criticisms to be leveled at a given work, but the extent of something's flaws will almost always vary from person to person, and whether or not those flaws make or break something for one person or another will vary as well. There aren't many things I would try to say are "objectively" bad, but there are a lot of things that I personally did not enjoy or the flaws in those things were too jarring for me to overlook.

 

Definitely, flaws in creative work like story based entertainment are often subjective and can be up for debate.

I appreciate it when people separate their criticisms based on personal taste from those based on objective/technical matters. Poor editing, for example, creates an unclear sequence of events so most people can agree that such a matter detracts from a particular story experience. On the other hand, a character's personality may appeal to some but not to others.

 

This might be more convincing if it wasn't on a transformers fan site hey. Super can't wait for the next update on the same 8 robots from the 80s.

 

Pretty brave of them to make yet another new He-Man show so closely after that last one. This one almost looks like a new IP altogether which was made into a new Masters of the Universe entry at the last minute.

Also this new version of Ram Man literally called "Ram Ma'am" has to be one of the most stupid creations I've seen all week.

 

Women can be bulky bruisers too. Ask Strika, Jennifer Walters or Big Barda.

(RIP the poor sod underneath Jen)




Though I think the name is awkward. Wham Bam it's Ram Mam?

 

Ahh yes, the creative powerhouse that was he man character naming conventions.

 

Honestly they could totally get away with new names. Keep He-Man, Skeletor, Battlecat, and then like, have entirely new characters for everyone else. Mattel's done this before for other kids media. Keep a handful of names, have new everything else.

Why they don't do that for this show we may never know. It suggests they know the previous material and are fans of it, but there's not much benefit here.

 

I mean I think they merged Teela and the Sorceress together for this show.

 

This show, along with Revelation, was planned for development as early as late 2018. It wasn't made closely after Revelation, more like it was planned in parallel. So this wasn't created with any knowledge of how Revelation would turn out. It's also made by an entirely separate production team.

This is a kid oriented full cartoon show with a full on toyline whereas Revelation is a limited series project with minimal toy tie ins in the Masterverse and Eternia Minis toylines.

Ram Ma'am is the most low effort part of the show revealed so far in my opinion.

I can get behind the other changes. I like the more Captain Marvel inspired angle with Adam/He-Man.

I like the Teela/Sorceress concept.

Orko as a techno wizard is cool with me.

A young Man-At-Arms on contrast to the usual father figure in most MotU iterations is perfectly fine since there's a different group dynamic.

But Ram Ma'am just doesn't seem inspired and interesting to me, especially if it's a creative decision based on what amounts to needing another female protagonist. I think the writers should have brought in another female character from MotU instead of a lazy gender swap.

Now I could be wrong (I'm happy to be proven wrong if it means a better story) and Ram Ma'am turns out to be a stellar character. We'll see.

 

I kind of think "Ram Ma'am" is fun in that 80's nonsense way, and very true about bulky bruiser women, just here, bulky seems to be a far description for this character. In fact, she seems to be the shortest character judging from what I've seen so far, and outside the armor, seems as thin as the other women in her team. I guess they're going more for "pint-size powerhouse" over "built like a brickhouse" amazon this time. Character still looks like she'll be fun.