Hated DOTM and it's really bugging me. (spoiler nerd wall rant)

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by whitefox360, Jul 11, 2011.

  1. hunterelf

    hunterelf Decepticon

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    i think we can call each other brothers after experiencing this tragedy...
    i hated this movie to the guts!! and i really dont understand why many people on this forum loved it and thought it was good...
     
  2. Transmetal

    Transmetal Well-Known Member

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    I'm with the OP on this one. I was expecting much more, maybe that was the problem. Bay & Co had said how great this movie was I think I like the first one way better besides Jazz dying. If everything cost so much to make they coulda scrapped the whole 3D thing and got rid of the stupid driller too. BTW, I was wondering why they didn't do more with Prime's trailer as well even if they had showed him gearing up in the flight tech that woulda been pretty cool.
     
  3. unicronic

    unicronic Well-Known Member

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    Across the three movies is what I said but for DOTM specifically:

    - Sentinel & Megatron's long planned scheme directly conflicts with The Fallen's plan in ROTF. The Fallen wanted to destroy earth yet Sentinel/Megs want to use it resources and workforcd as a way to revitalise Cybertron - complete conflict and major plothole
    - 200+ Decepticons managed to get to the moon but not earth? - Minor plothole
    - highway chase, as good as it was - why expose sentinel to such danger if the autobots already knew his value as the sole operator of their space bridge tech - minor plothole
    - Ironhide a major character is killed but never referenced again - minor plothole
    - Sentinel's arrangement was made with Megatron prior to Sentinel leaving Cybertron, yet The Ark was shot down by Decepticons - why? - minor plothole
    - If The Ark and so many more transformers always manage to make it to earth, how far are Cybetron & Earth? How can the Ark be disabled yet is still able to crashland on the moon - why not get to earth? - Mutliple plotholes
    - Sentinel & Megatrons plans original timing pre-crash seems in conflict as Megatron was headed to earth to retrieve the Allspark - if Megatron had succeeded surely he would have simply returned to Cybertron thusly making the Sentinel-Megatron agreement pointless - Major plothole

    These are several plotholes that are of varying significance, I don't think many of them can be explained away - elaborately created theories are not true answers although they do help.
     
  4. Starscreamownz

    Starscreamownz Air Commander

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    I see. All our correct explanations using things only from the movies to explain these false plot holes are invalid because you don't want to believe it.

    How very ignorant of you :) 

    I answer all your questions. That'll be $50.99
     
  5. rizuan76

    rizuan76 Banned

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    Yup I couldn't agree more, what would happen then if The Fallen plan in ROTF had come to fruition?

    Would that make the Sentinel/Megs plan null & void? :inquisiti 

    I really like DOTM but I just couldn't find anything about it that connects with ROTF...
     
  6. JazzSanti86

    JazzSanti86 Rockin Out! Latino Style!

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    it's not that big of a deal man, also its this crazy thing called personal opinion, its crazy I know that people can like stuff you don't like ;) 
     
  7. Trikeboy

    Trikeboy Well-Known Member

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    Megatron's end game has always been to restore and control Cybertron, whatever and whoever he has to work with to acheive this goal, he will do it. The Fallen had already corrupted Megatron and Megatron knew that siding with the Fallen would help him acheive his goal however it would also mean that the Fallen would be in control of Cybertron in the end. Sentinel, who had no idea of the Fallen, came to Megatron and offered a deal, a deal that would allow him to be in control of Cybertron. Megatron accepted, afterall, only a Prime can kill the Fallen. Megatron bet on the plan with Sentinel working but after the Ark was lost, he reverted back to the original plan.

    A Decepticon invasion force without a plan would have been taken out. The Decepticons knew that they can be killed by human weapons and with the Autobots on Earth, it would have been to hard to invade. They had to believe the Autobots were dead before they invaded.

    So they should put Sentinel on house arrest because he can do one thing? Sentinel would have revealed his hand sooner.

    I referenced that earlier. Ironhide's death is the start of the battles. After he is killed, everyone is running round picking up after Sentinel's rampage so taking time to have a scene with Ironhide's corpse would have killed the feeling of urgency that scene had.

    Make it look convincing. The Decepticon in the pursuing ship was probably not in on the plan.

    Umm, it drifted in space after it was disabled? Megatron and the Allspark crash landed on Earth centuries ago, the Ark crash landed in the 1960's. The Moon does orbit the earth. Chance happening means it crashed on the moon and not Earth.

    As before, Megatron wanted power, how he got it and who he had to step on to get it, he would do it. Why would he need to honor the deal with The Fallen or Sentinel Prime if he had the Allspark? He would get Sentinel to fight and kill the Fallen then take out Sentinel and finally be in control of Cybertron.
     
  8. adypax

    adypax You didn't betray me, you betrayed yourself.

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    ^THIS!!^

    Bay didnt mean to rape our childhood..its just a movie for fcuks sake..

    shheeeeshhh...
     
  9. Greyley

    Greyley Well-Known Member

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    I would just like to say thank you for that. My friends think nothing of trashing something I love to pieces right in front of me, and I'd be lying if I didn't say it hurts like hell. It's good of you to care enough about your friends to not vent in front of them.
     
  10. transformervic1

    transformervic1 HI!

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    this thread, is won.
     
  11. RamWorkz

    RamWorkz Wave o' Sound

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    Smells like GEEWUN in here. Give Bay a break. Without him THERE WOULDNT BE A TRANSFORMERS MOVIE AT ALL.
     
  12. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    My turn....

    Starting a thread and kicking it off with a very long diatribe would suggest otherwise...

    Right from the start, your criticism falls apart. I can see how people might say "I didn't like or care for the narrative", but to say that no attempt was even made at a narrative is just foolish. DOTM has been noted as having a much improved story over ROTF, and you can make the case that it has the strongest out of the trilogy.

    In your first paragraph, you say this:

    But given the above paragraph, you are coming off as one...

    It sure seems like you are though, dude.

    Ok, for sake of argument, let's say you're not.

    Are you sure you actually saw "Transformers: Dark of the Moon"? Because that's exactly what movie it was.

    Hyperbole. It was nowhere near half as long as you say.

    Kind of a stretch. It's a new twist on "the robots weren't in it enough"! I thought they did a good job of showing the Autobots and the humans working as a team.

    I almost have to accuse you of trolling for this paragraph. To say that the TF scenes were "filler" is complete bullshit. Motives and emotions were definitely and 100% presented by the Transformers, and anyone who says otherwise is either delusional or intentionally trying to rile up others. Anyone who wants to argue that point is free to PM me. I've got plenty of examples.

    That was never the appeal for me. If that's what it was for you, that's great.

    It sounds like these movies simply took the concept in a different direction than you were expecting.

    Yes, the toys are very popular. Pretty much the only reason the franchise exists today.

    Saving the planet Earth. From the Decepticons. How you missed that, I have no idea.

    Yes, there is. First - they're protecting humanity from destroying itself, as well as from any further attacks from the Decepticons. Then the Autobots discover a human cover-up and the wreckage of the Ark. Then the Decepticons attack Earth, and the Autobots are called into action once again to save the planet. Not only is there a story for the robots, it was BY FAR the strongest story of the trilogy, and the most true to the nature of the franchise.

    Sigh.

    This is such a cookie-cutter criticism; a lame "buzzword" knock on the movie that people throw out trying to look smart. First off - the very first scene of the movie is the war on Cybertron. There's also the appearance of Optimus' trailer and what it does, and a very cool scene involving the Autobots at NEST HQ.

    I don't think you're bitter. I think you knew you were going to hate this movie before you ever saw it, and you've picked out criticisms that other people have already had that don't hold up when you think about what actually happened in the movie. It's the "Ebert" syndrome.

    They just are.

    Not worth it anymore.
     
  13. night-skyward

    night-skyward Collects animated, mainly

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    it'd be win-win for megatron. The fallen needed the matrix to power the harvester which would have created energon for the cons to use to rebuild cybertron and eradicate the autobots. However megatron also needs the metrix to revive sentinel, so megs has to use the Fallen to get to it, even if it means calling him master and grovelling at his feet. Fallen succeeds, earth is destroyed yet megatron and gang get to retake (?), rebuild and remove any possible uprising from the autobots.

    Fallen's plan fails, we get DOTM. Megatron then puts his plan with sentinel back into action now that he knows the matrix rest in the hands of optimus and that sentinel was his mentor, so naturally he'd want to revive him.

    Megatron has always only cared about cybertron and he didn't care what he had to do, or who he had to follow to get it back.

    That aside.. the film was only really hampered by cut footage and some iffy editing, i still dug it though =)
     
  14. unicronic

    unicronic Well-Known Member

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    Across the three movies is what I said but for DOTM specifically:

    - Sentinel & Megatron's long planned scheme directly conflicts with The Fallen's plan in ROTF. The Fallen wanted to destroy earth yet Sentinel/Megs want to use it resources and workforcd as a way to revitalise Cybertron - complete conflict and major plothole.

    The end result of ROTF if the Fallen was sucsessful would have created Energon which Cybertron needed. Besides remember when Megatron tells the Fallen "The allspark is destroyed and without it our race will perish" implying that they want to kill our sun to revitalize Cybertron. Same with the whole flashback scene Jetfire gave us. It was all to harvest Energon from the Sun.

    I truly appreciate and understand your answer but the DOTM plot precedes the energy harvester plan - according to the movie plot.

    - 200+ Decepticons managed to get to the moon but not earth? - Minor plothole

    Its called hibernation. They wanted to be there. Reference the scene where the russian cosmonauts show Sam the pictures of the pillars being moved around by Decepticons.

    Why hibernate? Why not summon them to the battle in TF1 to get the allspark?

    - highway chase, as good as it was - why expose sentinel to such danger if the autobots already knew his value as the sole operator of their space bridge tech - minor plothole

    What are you talking about? How else are they going to get back to Washington DC soon. Would you rather they waste time putsing around in Baltimore traveling the back roads that don't exist? So that the dreads can attack them there farther away from Nest.

    I am pretty sure that Sentinel & Co left the same base that they ended up at, or is that my bad?

    - Sentinel's arrangement was made with Megatron prior to Sentinel leaving Cybertron, yet The Ark was shot down by Decepticons - why? - minor plothole

    Because only Megatron, Soundwave and Sentinel knew of this plan. If the decepticons didn't attack it the autobots on the ground would get suspicious.

    They could attack just miss.

    - If The Ark and so many more transformers always manage to make it to earth, how far are Cybetron & Earth? How can the Ark be disabled yet is still able to crashland on the moon - why not get to earth? - Mutliple plotholes

    Its not a plot hole. Cybertron is never given an established distance from earth. Its you over analyzing things that makes you assume its a plot hole.

    Over analysis I'll admit to, however there are two possibilities - Cybertron is immensely far away which makes things like the ark crash etc oh so convenient but if Cybetron is closer than we believe why space bridge it closer.

    - Sentinel & Megatrons plans original timing pre-crash seems in conflict as Megatron was headed to earth to retrieve the Allspark - if Megatron had succeeded surely he would have simply returned to Cybertron thusly making the Sentinel-Megatron agreement pointless - Major plothole

    Ok I'm going to explain your point really carefully(what little reason there is in there). Megatron and Sentinel were going to earth for the sun harvester. The autobots (Under Sentinel) sent the allspark into space where it honed in on Earth. Megatron was going to enter earth and retrieve it so they could repower it with the harvester. However Megatron didn't realize we had a magnetic field over our planet which screwed up his sensors. Hence why Megatron said in DC " We were going to meet here on earth before fate waylayed us apart." Sentinel's damaged ship couldn't land on earth because he was disabled by the decepticon ships he thought he could evade.

    All good explanations but the allspark didn't need repowering, it has killed Megatron, revived Megatron, given life to many insignificant bots and revived Jetfire.

    These are several plotholes that are of varying significance,

    Nope. They're just your wild imagination.

    Afraid not, they are everywhere. However despite the plotholes, I have enjoyed all 3 movies immensely
     
  15. thien425

    thien425 Well-Known Member

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    First the Fallen didn't want to "destroy" the earth, he wanted to destroy the sun and absorb it's energy to mass produce energon. Big difference.

    I dont see how decepticons being on the moon instead of earth is a plothole.....

    What else were they supposed to do with Sentinel? They were escorting him back to the N.E.S.T base so he'd be safe.

    It's a time of war they aren't going to be like "hey decepticons wait one sec while we cry over the death of a soldier." "okay we'll do that because we're soooo generous."

    Starscream was the one who shot down the ark, and just because Sentinel had a deal with Megatron doesn't mean every decepticon knew of it as shown with Starscream during the DC invasion scene.

    Oh yeah I totally forgot that disabled vehicles can't crash especially ones that fly, how silly of me....

    You just made an assumption that he would screw over Sentinel, you don't know that he would or wouldn't derp.

    Nice try though. I already have two infractions so I will not say some of the things I was going to say, have a nice day.
     
  16. Jazz1979

    Jazz1979 Well-Known Member

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    I must agree OP for most issue.
    I always disliked in Bay's Transformers movies giving way too much credit to the human, especially the glofification of the US military.
    I always disliked the low characterization of the Transformers in this trilogy.
    Robots for Michael Bay seem to be only having the purpose to be badass
    and for the kaboom effects.
    The immature jokes are so boring and only funny for young teens only.
    lame deaths of Cons and Autobots.
    the silly design of Wheeljack.
    no real grieving by the Autobits when Ironhide died.
    Shockwave having problem with a chute.....SUPER LAME!
     
  17. unicronic

    unicronic Well-Known Member

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    Why get nasty? No point and demeans any discussions - I thought this was a civilized debate - am I wrong to think that?
     
  18. einis

    einis Want some candy?

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    this

    and this
     
  19. thien425

    thien425 Well-Known Member

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    No I am just defending the films, let me break this down for you:

    Plan A: Fallen uses sun harvester to get energon for cybertron- FAIL
    Plan B: Megatron was to retrieve the allspark and bring it back to cybertron- FAIL
    Plan C:Sentinel flies to Earth (around the same time as Megatron but Megatron prematurely left to retrieve the allspark) to meet with Megaton to transport the allspark back to cybertron.- FAIL
    Plan D: Revive Megatron > Get allspark > Bring it back to cybertron(Megatron wasn't aware of Sentinel's crash)- FAIL
    Plan E: Kill the only known still living Prime(optimus) and have the fallen arrive to locate the matrix and activate the sun harvester to create a large amount of energon.- FAIL
    Plan F: Soundwave tells Megatron about Sentinel's crash and he has Shockwave act like he wants the ark engine piece so Optimus will take it, find and revive sentinel, sentinel would activate space bridge bringing cybertron to earth and have the humans work for them(considering they have no way to produce energon).- FAIL

    That is semi-confusing to understand but eventually it makes sense, I hope this helped you understand, and I'm sorry if I came off as rude last time.
     
  20. roy_flagg00

    roy_flagg00 I want more life....

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    The movies all had good points and bad points, but for what it's worth alot more could have been done with the source material provided, and that I do blame on Bay. That and the very basic film-making mistakes made throughout the franchise.