Hasbro To Generate NFTs Based On Transformers And G.I. Joe Properties

Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by SilverOptimus, Apr 27, 2021.

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  1. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    Is it unrelated?

    Because the big argument is that the electricity needed to run and house these servers has detrimental effects to the environment. But what about the servers running, say, this website? Or any website?

    What specifically makes this particular digital endeavour's electronic consumption worse than other electronic consumption? Because it's considered worthless? Is it producing a larger carbon footprint than, say, image and video hosting websites that are 99% "worthless" information nobody will ever use again, yet are still being stored and maintained?

    It's just weird that the environment is suddenly a big issue here but has never once been brought up in regards to any other service that requires electricity.

    This is not rhetorical, by the way, I genuinely want to know why this is supposedly so much worse than running servers for equally pointless information. (and make no mistake, NFTs are pointless, in case I haven't made myself clear)
     
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  2. David Hingtgen

    David Hingtgen Chromaticon

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    Because NFT's are nothing. Travel is something, entertainment is something, even if they may not literally physically exist----they're at least movement, action, or "visual stimulation". Forums are discussion and introspection with fellow fans. An NFT is just a very complicated and unique URL, that exists for the sole purpose of existing, and sucking up a lot of electricity to do so.
     
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  3. worldsgreatest

    worldsgreatest Well-Known Member

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    The greatest waste of energy on the planet, AXETUALLY, is arguing on the internets.
     
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  4. Prime135

    Prime135 Friend of Arcee

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    BUT WHO THE FUCK SAID IT WAS "SUDDENLY" AN ISSUE?????? THERE WAS SNOW IN WEST TEXAS IN MARCH THIS IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A THING!!!!!

    Ok, let me dumb it down for the class. Servers = bad. More servers = more bad.

    Just because we are currently at bad, does not mean it is justifiable to go to more bad.

    We are currently working to introduce renewable energy sources on a global scale. However, the clock is ticking until the day that we literally have nowhere to live, and I for one would love to have a family some day. So, when a corporation uses the same amount of electricity as saaaay this entire site, to produce and maintain a single digital image, you can see where I would be concerned.

    If you don't believe in climate change, then just say it and stop beating around the bush.

    This fucking thread went from "lets rally for our futures and tell hasbro to fuck off" to "well is the rain forest aaaactually important?"
     
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  5. Jeddostotle7

    Jeddostotle7 Well-Known "Member"

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    It's a combination of NFTs being truly nothing as mentioned by David above, and also that they use massively disproportionate amounts of resources and power (and thus produce massively disproportionate amounts of carbon) for what they are, and the amount of resources and power they use (and carbon they output) will only increase and increase endlessly, by design. Crypto as a whole is a bunch of computers doing harder and harder math problems to generate """value""", and by design, as those math problems get harder and harder, they'll use more and more power and resources, and output more and more carbon. Blockchain stuff as a whole is uniquely awful in this manner.
     
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  6. T-Hybrid

    T-Hybrid Gnodab Kidult (He/Him)

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    It's more like a bunch of people voiced concern about NFTs along with helpful info about why they're harmful before a bunch of irony-poisoned contrarians jumped in because, as usual, they think it's lame for anyone to care about stuff.

    And the only argument they have is that "well other stuff uses electricity" as if there haven't already been studies in to the benefits of electric cars and residential solar installation.
     
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  7. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    Because I've never heard people complain about server buildings being the cause of snow in Texas.

    I've never even heard anyone equate the energy costs of running servers to any environmental change before this very thread. I'm sure if you Googled it you could find articles linking the two, but this is the first time I've ever seen the connection made. Hence "suddenly."

    Then why do we support them in every other facet of our lives? Because we deem it necessary for our personal interests? Again, what makes TFW's servers better, aside from it just being something you personally want?

    We have all facilitated the expansion of technology. I believe completely that NFTs are bad for the environment, in the same way I believe completely that non-renewable resources, non-recyclable materials, and consumerism in general is bad for the environment. But like all of you I still take part in it, so I'm not going to cry and get mad about it, because I facilitated it.

    Literally no one here has stated they don't believe in climate change. Nobody's even acting like that. You just made that up out of nowhere.

    Alright, then let me put it this way: I don't believe for a second that anyone here who is complaining about servers costing us the environment would so much as recycle a water bottle if it meant extra effort for them. The fact that you are posting this supposed outrage on a Transformers fansite where it will have absolutely zero effect is, to me, proof of your insincerity. (on top of the inherent hypocrisy as you're using technology that is itself using energy that is so damaging)

    Like I said, I'm not about to go out of my way to worsen the environment, and I certainly won't support NFTs (though I can't imagine why I ever would lol) but people here are climbing a pretty high horse given we're all contributing to this very ecological threat literally as we speak.

    EDIT: Also, I know I joked this earlier, but I personally don’t think NFTs will be this environmental blight because there’s no way this shit will ever catch on. We agree on this for sure, that NFTs are stupid and pointless, but to me that is exactly why they will not manifest to any scale that would be harmful.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
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  8. T-Hybrid

    T-Hybrid Gnodab Kidult (He/Him)

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    People have been talking about the environmental impact of crypto for years, and those same people have been discussing how changes in climate cause these types of extreme swings in weather patterns for just as long.

    It's not just "more servers equal snow in Texas." The snow in Texas is just another example of extreme weather being set off by changes in our climate. Another one off the top of my head has been the increasing frequency and intensity of hurricanes in tropical regions.

    You're confused as to why Transformers fans would use a Transformers forum to voice concern about the company who makes Transformers using Transformers to promote environmentally hazardous practices?
     
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  9. Jeddostotle7

    Jeddostotle7 Well-Known "Member"

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    the things built to mine crypto or NFTs aren't just normal servers, they're collections of graphics cards built basically to use as much energy as they possibly can to eke out even a fraction of a bitcoin. the way it intrinsically works to mine crypto is diametrically opposed to efficient computing.
     
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  10. T-Hybrid

    T-Hybrid Gnodab Kidult (He/Him)

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    Which is, itself, a known and documented issue as graphics cards have become increasingly scarce due to miners buying up stock.

    Leading to concerns around HDD/SSD supplies hitting on the same issue now that at least one new crytpo wants to use available disc size as a basis for computing value.
     
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  11. Cheebs

    Cheebs Well-Known Member

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    It is nothing like hosting a web site. The calculations required to perform the transactions are monumental and take many computers running many graphics cards just to do the math.

    Like, this math takes calculations like I can't even describe. Which takes amounts of electricity i can't even describe.
     
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  12. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    So I have a question then, and again this is not rhetoric or snide or anything, but if that’s the case then where do they get the value from? If it’s that inefficient, how is this practice sustained financially?
     
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  13. T-Hybrid

    T-Hybrid Gnodab Kidult (He/Him)

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    Here's the thing though, they already are. Because they're built on the back of an already harmful crypto mining industry.

    Many NFTs are bought using cryptocurrency. So you're churning cycles to buy something that is also churning cycles. All in the hopes you'll someday sell it to someone else who is churning cycles.

    People said the same thing about cryptocurrency when it started, and now look where it's gotten.

    It's not. The crypto market is incredibly volitile and people frequently lose tons of it to digital scams or system failures.

    But that doesn't stop them. It just keeps plugging along mining more and more.
     
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  14. Gepard

    Gepard Well-Known Member

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    Because they ingrained themselves into every facet of our lives before we realized how bad they are? We have a chance to object to NFTs with advance knowledge of their downsides, and stop them before they become a thing. Like Prime135 said, just because we're doing bad right now doesn't mean it's a-okay to do even more bad.

    The first time I ever heard about NFTs and what they are was from an urban homesteader who grows her own food and tries to live an environmentally friendly lifestyle. Not everyone objecting to this is a hypocrite, and it would be foolish to ignore criticism on that basis.
     
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  15. Gepard

    Gepard Well-Known Member

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    As I understand it, the inefficiency is deliberate to emulate material scarcity. Since digital information can be copied endlessly, the value of crypto comes from the "scarcity" of each new coin/copy/whatever being more difficult to produce than the last one. It limits supply and therefore increases demand.
     
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  16. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    But we realize they’re bad now, right? So why not do something to change that?

    So we just continue doing this bad, whilst complaining about more bad?

    Im not ignoring the criticisms. I agree and concur NFTs are a waste of time, money, and resources with an environmental detriment.

    But there is hypocrisy in complaining about frivolous technology’s damaging effects through frivolous technology.

    That’s absolutely hilarious and depressing.

    Can Bitcoin be faked? Like if someone had, I dunno, a thumb drive with Bitcoin on it, what would happen if you just copied that information?
     
  17. Bitchwing

    Bitchwing Oh, Lord Megatron, we're really in it now...

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    ...Then by circular logic why be on here arguing over the very thing you also criticize *facepalm*
    Screenshots_2021-04-29-01-41-27.png

    Productive conversation as always on TFW2005.
    I say we all call it a night.
     
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  18. Gepard

    Gepard Well-Known Member

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    To be blunt, who gives a shit? NFTs/crypto cross a line for a lot of people, as they reveal just how broken and horrible late-stage capitalism has become. People should react negatively to this; let them. It's appropriate.
     
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  19. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    But... I’m not complaining about it? That’s my point. “Let he who is without sin,” my man.

    Also, why’d you screenshot my post instead of just quoting me?

    That’s one convenient line, though. A line that just so happens to separate what makes them happy from things outside their bubble that they can comfortably criticize.
     
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  20. Dead Metal

    Dead Metal Well-Known Member

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    To add to the difference between mining rigs and normal servers.
    Normal servers, like the majority of tech, evolve to try and be as efficient as possible. Both Microsoft and Linux try to change their code to be as power efficient as they can while delivering the needed computing power.

    Blockchains however are designed to become less and less power and computing efficient as time goes on.
    Bitcoin halves the output of coins every four years for each completed block, that is on top of increasing the complexity of each block.
    Ethereum is slated to quarter it's output by the end of the year, and this is despite it wanting to be the more efficient solution.

    Crypto investors will often claim that the majority of Bitcoin is mined with renewable energy, and then point to examples of mining facilities in Europe that use their own hydro generators and solar panels. What they ignore though is that the majority of bitcoin mining factories are located in rural China, where fuel prices and land are cheap as dirt. Those rural areas run on inefficient coal plants.
    It's gotten so bad that China recently got pissed off about crypto because it threatened their plans to cut their impact on the environment.

    Crypto is cool, but the way it's designed to generate value is awful and terribly thought out.

    As for tfw's server, I bet you that the site shares a server with many, many other sites and doesn't have its own dedicated server just for it alone.

    While crypto currencies exist on a whole network of machines each designed to be as power hungry as possible, running software that's designed to run these machines on full power and to become more and more energy inefficient as time goes on.

    Both Bitcoin and Ethereum have run into problems where the Networks power is too low and transactions now take longer and more expensive, because the hardware it runs on isn't sufficient to keep the software running properly.

    While Ethereum is trying to work against this with a comprehensive update that will run into problems too, simply due to how the system is designed to work and maintain value.

    And this when we're trying to cut down on our reliance on fossil fuels.
     
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