I guess I consider myself a "loyalist", but Takara really shouldn't be considered as being "non-loyalist". It's the same toy out of the same factory, slightly different paint job and in a different package.

Being a Hasbro loyalist to the point of not accepting TT stuff is borderline neurotic IMHO. I don't buy them because they cost triple and generally I'm not a fan of sparkly paint and weird chrome apps but their just as much "legit" IMHO. That said, they do have a deco here and there that is superb.

As for KO, I "generally" don't buy anything KO, not just toys.

Third party is the troubling one for me. I don't like to support ID Theft and the price makes it easier to avoid doing that. But still there are some really nice 3rd products out there that if I had the cash for would be tough to say no to.

But even if I did have the cash and did buy it, I would still have a hard time calling it a "Transformer". Transformers are made by Hasbro/TT. Period.

 

I purchase whatever looks good to me. If Has/Tak does not produce what I want and 3rd party does, they get my business. It's simple as that. If 3rd party were doing things illegally, they would not be able to show off at the SAME convention as Has/Tak (at least, Has/Tak hasn't minded 3rd party since it increases their product's popularity).


Thus, being official vs. not, isn't really a matter to me. If it looks good, its the definitive version for me.

 

I do not consider myself a hasbro loyalist. Most of my collection is hasbro because its easier and cheaper is all.

 

Certainly that's the stance of a number of Has/Tak loyalists, but I don't think anyone's proven that one way or the other.

Perhaps the third parties are indeed producing them legally, and there's nothing they can do? Otherwise, they wouldn't alter trademarked names, omit Autobot/Decepticon symbols completely, and use very obviously non-Hasbro/Takara type packaging.

If they're not doing that, then technically, they're not producing Transformers. Just robots that transform, which has been done ever since the times BEFORE G1 even...

 

Part of my enjoyment of this hobby is being interested in Hasbro as a company and their brands. That's a bit of an oblique comment for this topic, but I do find it applicable. "TRANSFORMERS" is owned by Hasbro as a brand, so it seems like stating the obvious that I'd buy Hasbro products first.

As far as actually buying and collecting toys, I tend to stick with Hasbro products for the most part. However, I do have several products created from Fansproject, iGear, and the like. Basically, if I like the product and I have the money to buy it, I will.

Typically, the available expendable cash is the issue. Would I like to own those Fansproject bug converters? Yeah! Do I have $150+ to spend for em? NOPE.

 

Names and symbols aren't the only things that are trademarked. Design likeness can be, and generally are as well.

Add to the fact that China basically doesn't enforce trademark laws and what is Hasbro going to do about it? I suppose they could stop shipping to retailers that carry third party stuff and they would be well within their rights to do so.

That said Hasbro understands that the fanbase while small is still an important part of the franchise and taking such actions would be disruptive to it. It's a calculated trade off.

 

I know this, but how far does "likeness" go when we're talking about robots and vehicle modes?

No one knows for certain, as far as I can tell. We all have our assumptions and opinions, but without any legal precedents I doubt even a well informed lawyer could tell us with 100% certainty.

Obviously I'm talking more along the lines of third party creations like the FP Insecticons, TFC Hercules, and iGear's Ironhide and Ratchet. When it comes to something like Faith Leader, I'm more inclined to think there's a legal issue. Not that I'm complaining, personally. I'm obviously not a "loyalist" and I just want an Optimus that will fit with my MP Seekers and Grimlock.

 

I'm not really a loyalist. I base my purchasing decisions on what I think is superior, regardless of whether or not it's a domestic release. As for Classics et al. toys, I think Henkei Hound is one of the few examples of a Japanese release beating its American counterpart in every single way (Smokescreen being the other - and maybe Rodimus). I also think that Warbot is better as Springer than the redecos Hasbro gave us under the 2.0 banner. Other than that, I'm okay with Hasbro releases and stand-ins from other lines.

 

Welcome to the "law", where nothing is ever "certain".

Still, it's a bet I'd be willing to take that if some of this stuff was produced in NA/Europe, Hasbro would win. (And I am very risk averse with my money, lol)

And yes, this applies to the FP Insecticons, Giant, Hercules, and iGear anything.

 

I wouldn't bet against you on that, if only because Hasbro would certainly have considerable clout in the matter (i.e. the money and the lawyers). All it would take is a "cease and desist" letter to scare away the little guys.

Doesn't mean it's right!  

Interesting that some take this thread to mean "official vs. third party" and some take it to mean "Hasbro vs. Takara/Tomy". I imagine, then, that there are Takara loyalists as well? Certainly they seem to produce the superior version, in most cases.

Also, I think that if you only buy Hasbro because it's cheaper, that doesn't really make you a "loyalist"... If it ever came to all-out war between Hasbro and TT, you wouldn't be a loyalist - just a mercenary.  

 

The only reasons I can think of is price and just a little bit of purism. I understand not wanting to buy for price, and can also understand people wanting to be purist collectors. after all, Transformers are technically/officially just HasTak and everything else is a supplement.

 

Well IMHO, Hasbro/TT taking it to the little guy would be right. But I have pretty strong opinions on IP theft.

As for TT versus Hasbro - that to me is a simple aesthetic preference thing. Both are completely "legit". I suppose in this case, the word loyalists might make sense.

Superior version? They are the same toy with a higher paint budget. Simple case of paying more for (arguably) more. Purely a preference thing.

As for a war between TT and Hasbro, kinda hard to fight yourself isn't it?

 

Fair enough!  

 

Could have something to do with 95% of third party outfits having next to no proven or reputable track record, being based out of China aka the illegal knock-off capital of the world, producing product of the utmost shitty quality, asking absurdly high prices, and the basic process of even getting the figures in the first place (blind online ordering vs. walking into a store where you can visually inspect the figures you're about to buy).

I'm no Hasbro loyalist by any stretch and I don't even care too much about the legalities of what third party outfits are doing since that's Hasbro's problem to deal with. I just don't trust the majority of them yet since they haven't done enough to convince me. Most of them have been around less than 1-2 years, a lot of the products they've produced are shit quality, and it takes forever for them to get anything done. I'm impressed with what I've seen where the not-Contsructons and not-Insecticons are concerned, though. If that kind of standard can be maintained in future figures, I'll be more likely to buy them... assuming of course that HasTak don't do their own better versions.

 

Hasbro's RTS Perceptor could easily pass for a Henkei toy if you'd not seen the United Version as it's covered in Chrome and none of the rest of the Hasbro ones seem to be.

Does that make it look out of place.

Hasbro are not in my good books lately as they have done themselves no favours with DOTM. and naturally the whole it's the end of the lines in the UK so nothing will get released her also comes into play on both Movie & Generations lines..

They should have repainted Skyhammer months ago. and they certainly shouldn't have made 3 of that horrible Voyager Prime and not even bothered releasing the better Japanese non-outer space version of the cab at all.

At the very least the Takara version should have been the mould in the TRU 3 pack. I personally think that whole set should have been a the Optimus (takara mould) with trailer
vs a new colour shockwave or a Black Voyager Megatron.... or heck even a silver ROTF Megatron.

I would be buying a lot more Takara stuff lately if the Yen was not so strong against the Pound and the Dollar it makes them to expensive.

 

Yes. How else can we needlessly label and dismiss others?  

 

Haha. I just made my first 3rd party plunge today - pre-ordered the Thundercracker I-Gear seeker. Got tired of waiting on Hasbro for this.

I never thought that I would see the day when I would order a 3rd party "transformer". But man, some of them are so tempting. I'm contemplating those insecticons now too.

 

this.

give me rebates and we're best friends.


Then again in the long run, the official ones will carry on further in tf collecting. can you be that sure that tak/bro won't do anything about what fans really want? Especially now that most collectors are spending more on the non-official ones. who knows in a few years a lot of us might be cursing at these companies for being milked.

 

Haha. Jokes on me now. Apparently Takara is re-doing the MP seekers (well at least Starscream but you know TCracker is right around the corner if the rumors are true).

 

When someone states their reason for not being interested in 3rd party items it's an "excuse."

All 3rd party items are rendered better than any official release there's ever been or is ever likely to be.

Ok, thanks for handing me the facts on a hot steaming platter of bullshit.