For the time period, most of them were complex.

 

Honestly, it's not just about complexity. The cheap paint aps on this thing just kill me. Simplifying your product doesn't mean that you need to paint it like a cheap KO.

 

The one thing about the 'Smash and Change' name for a toy line is I just know I'm going to end up calling it 'Smash and Grab'...

 

By today's "standards"...sure. But back then?...a toy that TF'd was a feat!!

 

Simpler isn't necessarily a bad thing. Even as an adult collect I find I'm more likely to pick up the less complex Generations figures off my shelf when I feel like transforming something instead of the figures that take forever to transform and where you have to have something aligned perfectly. My only real issue would be if Hasbro took out articulation because the 3 3/4 superhero figures with limited articulation have been horrible I don't want Transformers to go down the lets save a buck with only five points of articulation.

The other worry is movie figures as part of Generations. If figures don't fly off the shelves then retailers can say we aren't ordering any more. So if the movie figures move slowly I'd hate for retailers to turn against Generations after that line has gone back to figures that were not movie related. Although I guess for people that actually like the movie look being in Generations will still give film characters a chance in non-movie year.

I would say don't be paranoid Hasbro will look after us, but I'm a GI Joe fan and well sometimes when Hasbro says don't worry we are looking out for you it can mean you are just getting expensive subscription and convention exclusives rather than something at Wal-Mart or Target prices.

 

K try to imagine you're a kid in the 80's trying to combine Devastator without the instruction sheet?

Or even better try to combine Raiden without instruction sheet.

No doubt some were simplistic (i.e. Jumpstarters) but alas there were a few which would be considered complex for it's era.

 

loving that packaging man.

I did think it was Magnus at first though

 

Now the movie title makes sense... " Transformers: Age of Extinction... of the brand!"

 

Same here. that really does look like TF Prime Ultra Magnus before you zoom in on the pic.

 

He's deluding himself, Alternators didn't bomb because if they did, they wouldn't have lasted for FIVE YEARS (2003-2007). The last few waves were shortpacked and thus sold poorly, but that's just a case of market saturation and general Hasbro distribution screwups.

 

I think, though, that's quite the point that Hasbro are making, that the figures have become increasingly complex over the years, because the engineering and design allow it, but obviously children don't evolve over the space of 30 years to match the complexity of the toys. So, make some simpler like they used to be, some that are very, very basic, some that are intermediate, but also keep some which are at the higher end of the complexity scale that can be made.

The figures in the 80's may have been complex for the time and simple by today's standards but that doesn't actually alter their level of complexity today, it just means back then there wasn't anything more difficult and now there is. Because we can make things more complex and difficult 30 years later, should only the most difficult and complex things be made now? Of course not.

 

Yep. But most of them were very simple. All the jets, the cars, Soundwave, shockwave, the individual constructions, Stunticons. My son could transform the Stunticon bots at three. And as you mention, there were mini bots. So things have come full circle. Most of the transformers in the 80's were simple. Beginning with the mini bots and becoming progressively difficult.

 

Toy Fair is less than 2 days away.. A lot of questions and concerns will be addressed very soon.
My guess is that movie deluxes and voyagers will be simplified, following the pattern of the final TF Prime releases. Down side is that complex engineering will be sacrificed (transformation, poseability, screen accuracy) for instant-gratification (5 step transformations, frustration-less kids and parents). Up side is that the toys will be larger and could lead to a potentially larger fanbase.

Is this the end of Transformers as we know it? Of course not.
So why are fans upset?

The irony in all of this is that the movies themselves fail to cater to a younger audience.
We still have Michael Bay at the helm, who insists on producing disaster films, following the perspectives of "average" citizens working alongside a military response to an alien attack. Instead of walking talking robots who are the main characters, we get a disaster movie whose appeal is explosions and action scenes. Not much time for character development, and not much time to explain the motivation behind the action.

Taking into consideration the choice of characters and themes in Bay's TF films (sex, power, warfare), the kid-friendly concepts of loyalty and "freedom for all" get lost in the orgy of fireballs and grunting.

Therefore, the movies continue to appeal to an older audience, yet the toys will be aimed at a much younger crowd. I think that's hard for a lot of collectors to stomach. A movie that treats you like an adult with toys that treat you like an impatient toddler..

I know this is much ado about nothing, and at the end of the day we are discussing toys.. BUT they are toys that most of us are very passionate about. As a fan for almost 30 years now, I can say that it was NOT simplicity that turned me on to Transformers. In the mid-eighties, those were not considered simple toys. They were complex action figures that turned from cars and trucks into articulated robots. I disagree with Hasbro's opinion that the "roots" of Transformers are in simplified designs. And I know I'm not the only one..

 

I think old Optimus there has way too much blue so I did a quick edit:

 

Er, yeah. I think that's exactly why there's not so much red on him this time round..  

 

Just repeat this line over and over to yourself:

"I do not have to buy every single Transformer that is produced."

And walk away from the thread.

 

Could gimmick!

 

Agreed. From an engineering perspective it was new and creative. But I don't think that that is what we are discussing, are we? Aren't we discussing simplicity of play? People weren't unintelligent in the 80's compared to today. Just because they hadn't seen Transformers before doesn't mean that they were beyond us. At seven years old I picked up Mirage, Optimus, Starscream, etc. and transformed them without instructions. Once you transformed your first car with a little study of the instructions you basically got 80 percent of them after that. My first seeker was a bit tricky until I figured out how to push the arms out and the nose cone through. That took a good forty five seconds of pondering at age seven. I don't think I would have enjoyed Prime Bulkhead as much at that age as I did Mirage in 1984. Just saying.

 

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