Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by The13Primes, Sep 4, 2020.
So far the masterpiece beast wars are far superior, I’ll gladly get both however
I'll ignore the use of "need" instead of "desire" or something more appropriate, but...
I think increasing the prices have interest.
I think focusing so much on the cartoon accurate designs over the toy/cartoon+ releases have hurt interest.
And I think the poor QC on the figures have hurt interest.
I don't think Generations is really to blame. They are a nice alternative for those who could not afford the MPs or don't like their aesthetic or don't trust the quality, but I really don't think nice $20-50 toys can compete with figures 5x the price and complexity. Like I love Hound, and Siege Hound is nice but far from ideal Hound. If I could trust a MP Hound to not crack I would have picked him up over the summer.
No I don’t think it was an accident. I think they saw an opportunity to make MP style figures at a reasonable price in Generations and to ensure the MP market would continue made MPs far more complex and cartoon accurate.
Hell no. The Generations line is always going to be easier to build a lineup for by cost and size alone. Prices on both lines have gone up but in this case, what you get in the MP line(higher accuracy, more features/articulation) isn’t as emphasized on the Generations line and the cost shows that disparity. Anyone expecting Kingdom Tigatron to be just as good or close to MP Tigatron is setting themselves up for disappointment. Hell, something would be very wrong with the MP if the Generations counterpart were just as good yet cost substantially less.
With Hasui Shogo moving from Masterpiece to Generations, I find many convenient similarities with WFC figures to the Masterpiece figures. It intrigues me. Doesn’t mean I expect the WFC figures to be on par with MPs though. I think the main reason Hasui was brought over was due to his intuitive transformations. His MP transformations were never that time consuming and that aspect has translated very well to his WFC designs. Plus given that WFC was an even more focused G1 approach compared to Prime Wars and given Hasui’s familiarity with G1 designs, he was an easy fit.
The Generations line has made strides since the low point of 2013 but cost cutting is rearing it’s ugly head again. With the MP line, costs have gone up but if there have been issues, it’s not usually seen as due to cost cutting(or at least not as much compared to the Generations line).
The Generations line was always meant for wider reach, a wider lineup. The MP line is meant for fan-favorites and meant to be the best for years at a time. It took over 5 years to get from MP-01 to MP-10 and about the same or more from MP-10 to MP-44.
This is a pretty ridiculous argument but a valid one. Yes WFC skews towards accuracy to the original G1 and now Beast Wars shows and the WFC figures have exhibited impressive articulation and paint apps, they are fantastic figures and very collectable... however no they don't go far enough in either direction or in terms of quality, materials, engineering, paint, sculpt, detailing, accessories etc to be considered comparable to Masterpiece. At the most you can say they have become an alternative to collecting MP but not a replacement. You can get a lot more bang for you buck and amass a much larger collection of a larger variety of characters... but MP is always going to top them in terms of finish and presence. Neither is superior to the other but neither is aiming at delivering the same thing to the same people.
Both lines are distinct and have different priorities/focus and serve different markets. WFC is (mostly) limited by price points and size classes, it's also the source of the CAD files for the TV show and the figures are designed to appeal to children as well as collectors... therefore it focuses on durability, playability and sets limits on complexity. Its also targeted at the western mass retail sector. It has to work within those perimeters. Although there's tonnes of nostalgia going on its not it's primary focus... unlike Masterpiece that is aimed at older more affluent nostalgia-junkie collectors (mostly) in Japan who collect primarily for display. It's focus(these days)being recreating the characters from the original shows in highly articulated and super show accurate form using the best engineering, finish etc etc with less focus on delivering that within a certain budget or meting the same sort of targets around durability, playability and complexity or sadly QC that you see in the mass retail lines. Despite growing similarities between the two lines you are still comparing apples with oranges.
I never needed MP. They’re too fragile and too expensive for my tastes. All I ever wanted were CHUG figures based on G1 Sunbow designs with a dab of vintage toy influence thrown in for good measure.
nope. mp is just a different level/game. i'm loving some of these WFC releases but like when i want the best version of something - its still the MP. that being said, preferences wise for me.....some characters benefit from the WFC aesthetic greatly. WFC jetfire take a plain white blocky g1 design with close to zero details and makes him look way more interesting. i prefer it to the "MP" style 3P offerings and would prefer it to a theoretical takara one too.
MP is too fragile and is not meant for just messing with, I have MP Star Saber and he’s supposed to be the one designed to be played with and even he doesn’t stand the test of time in that factor, Let alone the later MP’s “specially beast wars stuff” I want to be able to to pull things down from a shelf and fiddle with it for a bit without worrying about paint chipping or joint wear and tear. I can’t just replace a 300 dollar MP but I can replace a generations figure real quick.
The purpose of MP is not to look like the cartoon. I don't know where that idea came from.
The purpose of the MP is to have elite materials, build quality, paint and engineering.
Then why don’t they?
because clowns will pay £300 for second rate product so why bother
I don't think it's accidental. They put Hasui and MP designers on CHUG.
They elevated Generations as a brand and opened the door to charging a bit more for a bit less, at a large scale, and unshackled MP to chase cash cow customers, mostly in Tokyo.
I think it's all very deliberate.
HasTak accidentally exposed the ridiculous and unjustified markup on their MP figures
No I haven't collected mainline since 2012. Figures are too hollow for me. However the line is perfect for my boys.
MPs are WAAAAAAY more expensive now, even when Figma and Figuarts' prices have also exploded.
Ehm, no? I mean, the retail line are lower standard figure, and it's ok to appreciate them, but they are lower standard figure and they could not be in a masterpiece collection (even the beautiful SS86 rodimus: that figure has not the basic standards to be considered a masterpiece).
So everything, the point is still valid ._.
Masterpiece is to Transformers collectors what McLarens and Bugattis are to car collectors. It's serving that top tier market, the collectors who are into the idea of owning something more exclusive than the mass market figures and have the money to afford it. Before Masterpiece went this direction, we didn't have a line that was serving this market, and since these collectors aren't going away, the MP line won't go away either.
What standards, exactly?
Better design ... nope. Just look at MP Bee v2. Specifically his back and feet. That mess would be unacceptable on a $20 CHUG, yet people defend it on a MP for some reason. The buttflap on Ultra Magnus. The upcoming Starscream who for some reason has double wings on his back now.
Better QC ... heck no. Are there any widespread reports of figures disintegrating in box like MP Hound?
Looks better ... subjective but for me no. Not a fan of the uber-cartoony look. Especially when the transformation suffers for it and you end up having to only view the figure at a particular angle for it to be show accurate anyway.
More fun ... well my few MP figures have way more dust on them than my mainline ones.
Personally, I hope CHUG never drops to the standards of MP.
MP gets by on the perception of higher quality and value, but rarely manages to deliver it.
for me, yes.
I get the arguments on both sides and I have a rather extensive mp collection that is likely into the 100s now with 3p factored in, but there is something that all the mps are lacking...
the whole catch of the 80s line that so many or us loved was the ability to flip between modes with ease and that is COMPLETELY LOST at the mp scale. even the easiest of mps (lets say something like ft jetfire) takes at least 5 minutes to do.
something the wfc line has excelled at is bringing that playablity back. transforms that can be done in about a minute or less AND have decent representation of the characters in bot and alt modes with modern articulation. that checks a lot of boxes for me and if I feel like fiddling with a tf these days I immediately reach for a fun and enjoyable wfc figure instead of a cumbersome mp.
mps will always look better on the shelf but I have to admit im considering a mp purge when its just not what makes me happy these days. could pad the old bank account and have plenty left to spend on some new mainline
Missing car pieces in alt mode, cheat with tubes lenght, bicolor leg, etc etc.
I mean, it's a great chug figure. But MP plays in another league.
MP Bee 2.0. changes his silhouette, like MP Prime and MP megatron. It's not a fat bee with frankenstein feet.
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