Get annoyed by the lack of continuity of the movies

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Dmhead, Jun 7, 2024.

  1. Dmhead

    Dmhead Well-Known Member

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    Not my intention to ''beating on a dead'' horse issue, but I'm got really disappointed when the recent news of Caple JR is stepping away from directing the sequel. I really liked what he did with ROTB for the most part since it's my second best TF movie after 07. I even rank ROTB over BB despite the latter being a better movier overall.
     
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  2. IGEBM

    IGEBM The Loremaster

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    Buddy, we’re on TFW2005; it’s literally impossible
     
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  3. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    Uh, yeah? Twice in DOTM we see spec ops guys doing anti-Deceptcon tactics, the first time being training with Bumblebee and then during the Chicago battle, they get the drop on Barricade and pour lead into his face (and that's not incendiary ammo, they don't make incendiary rounds for assault rifles AFAIK). Sure he shows up later in TLK...but with a completely different head. And Blackout? Yes, it required a direct shot to the chest, but that still was a human grenade launcher firing an explosive round into his chest that did the deed, so conventional ammunition has worked since the first film. It has to be military grade ammo but it still works.

    Until they don't. It's kind of a paradox how the re-entry protoforms can survive re-entry heat and the cold depths of space while traversing through it, but the considerably lower temperature incendiary rounds can tear right through them and they just go into a stasis lock of sorts when exposed to handheld refrigeration guns. And that's not getting into how the films never really talk about other ammo types like armor piercing, high explosives, or combination type loads that have been in common use since WWII.

    S7 took Bumblebee down with handheld cold guns. That automatically is a mark against Transformium when these drones wouldn't be able to handle things like, say, the big ice storm that took down the Texas power grid a few years back. Or probably the average Russian winter.

    When the hell was KSI going to be sending drones into SPACE? Their whole mission was to make drones and sell them to the highest bidder. As even you just admitted, Transformers can't handle extreme temperatures if it's not directly related to space travel. Namely, re-entry heat levels can reach 7,000 Degrees Fahrenheit, but modern incendiary rounds are only around 1,800 degrees Fahrenheit. And the latter is what tore through Scorponok hard enough to completely sever his tail.
     
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  4. Galvatross

    Galvatross Dom Dom, Yes Yes Veteran

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    I think the argument about Transformium and temperature isn't really the right one.

    I also don't think the KSI cube transformations are actually the more "advanced" transformations than the Cybertronian transformations. On the contrary, I actually think they are the earlier stage of transformation than the complex mechanical transformations of Cybertronians.

    And even if they are, I don't think KSI magically came up with more advanced transformations than Cybertronians, because if you watch the film, Brains says that Megatron was the one who fed KSI the science. The KSI transformations and Transformers were more of a Megatronian development than a human one.

    What is the strength of Transformium? Honestly, it's really simple, and literally what the film describes and shows it as. Programmable matter. This means you can give it instructions to move around and perform actions, to change color, to change texture, and adapt their engineering as needed. The Transformium ball we are shown in the lab is given instructions to change color and shape and move around, and that is what it does. It is "Molecularly unstable" not in the sense of being radioactive and decaying over time, but in the sense of it can change the relationship of the Transformium molecules to each other to change the appearance, structure, and movement of objects made of Transformium.

    Transformium also addresses an in-universe issue that is present in many, if not all, continuities, which is the issue of Cybertronians attaining new alternate modes and adapting their engineering, color, and texture to the new alternate mode. The problem is, in real life, changing things like this requires mechanical work, painting, replacement of parts with new parts or new materials, or whatever advanced technological applications can be done. Transformium, or a programmable matter, that can rearrange atoms as needed, while not existing on Earth today, does help explain how advanced, alien robots can scan a new alternate mode and adapt their engineering and appearance to the new alternate mode and do so seamlessly.

    To use a real-life example from nature, Transformium makes Transformers kind of like robotic octopuses. Real-life octopuses can change their color, shape, and texture in a way few animals would be able to do:


    As for durability, I don't think Transformium in of itself automatically makes a Transformer durable or tougher than all metals. Since Transformers need to adapt their engineering, some Transformers are simply engineered and programmed to be more durable, and others are not. To give a real-life example from nature once again, vertebrate animals have collagen, which is a connective tissue, but the way collagen fibers are arranged within the animal's anatomy can make certain body parts tougher. For instance, study of ankylosaurid armor has shown that their armor contained collagen that was arranged in multiple directions, which would have made their armor extremely resistant to physical damage...a good thing when you have to deal with tyrannosaurs as well as belligerent members of your own species. Likewise, it isn't being made of Transformium in of itself that makes a Transformer tough or durable...its how the Transformium molecules are structured and layered, although being made of metal, a Transformium-made tire, as an example, is going to be much more durable than, say, rubber tires filled with air, even if the adaptability of Transformium can give it the appearance of rubber.

    Has there ever been a real-life Transformium found? Of course not. Does such a material really exist? Extremely, extremely unlikely, but I do enjoy it as a fictional scientific concept. Just like I enjoy Cybertronian transformations and the KSI transformations as fictional depictions of transformation and not real-world phenomena. However, the main point of my post isn't that so much as describe Transformium as a concept on its own terms.

    In AoE, there actually is a brief "concept art film" shown where KSI imagines sending their prototypes onto celestial bodies to explore or mine or whatever.
     
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  5. Rumblestorm

    Rumblestorm Well-Known Member

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    I dont know. A certain someone still has such a raging hard-on for shitting on the movies that I'm frankly shocked that after 10 years he's still parroting the same crap with the same passion.
    Bet you he hates remakes too, but clearly has no problem remaking the same posts over and over.
     
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  6. SheepWeaver95

    SheepWeaver95 Well-Known Member

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    Here's something that annoys me; the first damn movie came out in 2007. The second in 2009. The third in 2011. Paramount had at least three years to set up an ironclad Cinematic Universe before Marvel's Phase One was a glimmer in Jon Favreau's eye, and they did nothing until just before writing the FIFTH. MOVIE.
     
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  7. Moy

    Moy Constructicons!

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    It's clear hollywood executives didn't put much care in connecting the films. I gave up hope since the last knight. Best attempts now are by awesome fans behind Rise of Unicron fan film or Rajarajamoran.


     
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  8. SheepWeaver95

    SheepWeaver95 Well-Known Member

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    Rajarajamoran, man, your talents are wasted on making clickbait videos.

    You should be DIRECTING these movies.
     
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  9. Johnson the third

    Johnson the third Well-Known Member

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    that asshole doesn't deserve to direct shit
     
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  10. SheepWeaver95

    SheepWeaver95 Well-Known Member

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    Given the choices we have, I'd much rather deal with him than Di Bonaventura.
     
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  11. Johnson the third

    Johnson the third Well-Known Member

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    di bonaventura is just stupid as shit, not a complete asshole
    also, the choices we have? are you saying you would rather have him direct it then literally any other possible person who could direct the films?
     
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  12. SheepWeaver95

    SheepWeaver95 Well-Known Member

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    Those two are not mutually exclusive.

    More to the point, as long as Di Bonaventura is in charge, we aren't going to GET a better director. Look at what happened to ROTB, that movie got absolutely gutted in the editing room.
     
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  13. Rumblestorm

    Rumblestorm Well-Known Member

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    I mean, both of them lie all the time, but Raj is far more blatant about it whereas Lorenzo just comes off as clueless. I think we'd ask for Lorenzo back after one film. We're only saying Raj is better because of his visual artwork. I think, after several Bay films, that we should already know that visuals are not the only important merits of a film.
     
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  14. TAKTIC00L

    TAKTIC00L ⚠ This User is being monitored by the CIA

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    what did he do bad
     
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  15. RazorX3000

    RazorX3000 Cybertronian Monkey

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    Lmfao
     
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  16. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

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    I would argue the big issue with the continuity issues is simply this - they were trying to answer "Why Earth?"

    I'd argue that they weren't the first series to do this - I'd argue it started in Beast Machines. Now, if you're thinking "Hang on, how can one of the first pieces of media set entirely on Cybertron be the first to try to answer 'Why Earth?'", allow me to explain.

    A couple of times in Beast Machines, it's stated the events of Beast Wars were orchestrated by the Matrix in an attempt to return the organic to an isolationist Cybertron. The implication is that Optimus Prime, when he launched the Ark, was subconsciously influenced to head to Earth too. Now, there's two options here - the Oracle was staging a massive ontological paradox, setting up the events by which Megatron would travel to prehistoric Earth... or the original plan was for the Autobots and Decepticons to incorporate organics into themselves (and what with binary-bonding, it seems they were getting close). Either opens up its own questions.

    I'd argue that no incarnation that's tried to give a deeper answer to this has ever really succeeded... or at least not without opening up its own set of questions. In TFP... how exactly did all the Project Iacon relics end up on the same planet?

    (I personally like the IDW1 explanation - where Shockwave basically constructed an ontological paradox around Earth - principally because it lampshades the sheer absurdity of it all).

    Now, there doesn't really need to be an explanation for this other than "that's where the spaceship crashed"
     
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  17. Banannixx

    Banannixx The Banana Man

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    Isn't that guy also really bigoted?

    iirc, and correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't he working on cgi stuff for ROTB until he quit because of Nightbird's voice actress or got dropped because of comments he made about her or something?
     
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  18. GitGudGabe

    GitGudGabe v e h i c o n

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    Hold on, are you going to pretend the movies had a sense of continuity before Bumblebee?
    Here are a brief list of retcons and continuity errors introduced by each film.
    • In transformers 1, the decepticons need to physically acquire the glasses after Sam listed them on eBay. Transformers 3 establishes the decepticons have several human collaborators dating back to the cold war. Surely having one of them buy them would have drawn less suspicion then sending barricade to accost Sam
    • Megatron is established to have been allied with sentinel prime 3, concurrent to his involvement with the fallen. This renders the fallen's scheme to see prime dead nonsensical, assuming he thought sentinel died of natural causes. Did the fallen know about the truce? Was it his, or Megatron's idea?
    • Transformers are revealed to have built the pyramids, have colluded with decepticons since the cold war, Killed the dinosaurs, and been involved in every major human conflict (tlk). With that being said, why is megatron treated like a big deal in tf1 when transformers have chilling at the witwikan estate since WW1?
    • Transformers 3 establishes the decepticons need human collaborators, despite the fact decepticons like alice can successfully infiltrate human society in TF2.
    • America hunts down autobots in tf4, and continues in tf5, while also holding decepticons prisoner- despite having worked with the autobots in TF2 and 3. Why would they hunt the who saved them, with the help of the instigators?
    • Bumblebee's voice in general, but most egregiously in tlk.
    • Ironhide is listed as being killed by cemetery wind, even though that was clearly sentinel
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2024
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  19. Johnson the third

    Johnson the third Well-Known Member

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    as far as we know, the human collaborators were only involved with the whole moon conspiracy?
    they didn't build the pyramids, them collaborating with humans was only known by the human colaborators, literally no human or transformer was alive to see the dinosaurs extinction, and the existence of the transformers fighting in human wars and shit was somehow covered up by the witwiccans. the american government doesn't know about the witwiccan castle, idk why you would think they do.
    me when i don't listen to dialogue in the films.
    cemetery wind is hunting all transformers because they have a grudge against them for destroying most of downtown chicago. also it was not "america" who was hunting them down, cemetery wind went rouge, they are incredibly clear about this. trf is a completely separate thing from cemetary wind, trf is more like a police force for transformers due to the fact thousands of transformers (of both factions) are landing on earth each year with no one to lead most of them, we only see them kill canopy because they were afraid he would hurt the children. they never try to kill any other autobot, not even grimlock slug who killed multiple trf soldiers, they blame that on marky mark for whatever reason. and lennox and general morshower even talk about how they would love to have prime back. it seems like they only take deception prisoners because those are the only prisoners we are shown. they work with the decepticons because they need their help to get the staff. and its not like they liked it either as evidenced by what santos says to lennox "broke our asses bagging these decepticons, now they let them out? whats really going on lennox".
    huh??? what??? what even gave you that idea? are you making things up to get mad at???
     
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  20. TAKTIC00L

    TAKTIC00L ⚠ This User is being monitored by the CIA

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    you could argue this was only known to megatron, soundwave and a few other top level desepticons. We know starscream didnt know because megatron said "you know only what you are told, which is nothing!" in dotm. Megatron likely didnt care about the moon plot in TF1 because the allspark wouldve been far more important, plus if he got it he couldve completely disregarded the moon plot.
     
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