Get annoyed by the lack of continuity of the movies

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Dmhead, Jun 7, 2024.

  1. Dmhead

    Dmhead Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Posts:
    1,052
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Likes:
    +2,098
    Each post-TLK movies are in their own movieverse. ROTB vaguely acknowledge BB. Also design wise ROTB is more Bayverse than Knightverse. With TF One, the distance between both movies cannot be any further apart.

    Paramount replacing directors for each movie hurts the franchise. I was hoping Caple JR would stay on, but something tells me Paramount didn't want him despite the report saying otherwise. Getting tired of this flip-flopping by Paramount. Right now, they might as just bring back Bay. At least with him at the helmet, we get some sort of continuity with the Bayverse.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  2. Novaburnhilde

    Novaburnhilde Musically inclined Autobirb

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Posts:
    25,586
    News Credits:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +54,588
    Even then the Bayverse had a very surface level sense of continuity, at least for the first four before TLK took a sledgehammer to the entire thing.

    But you're right in regards to how disjointed these movies end up feeling due to the constantly changing directors and writers who clearly don't communicate / work with each other. I don't work with anyone involved so I can't really say for sure why Travis and Caple were replaced, or if they both simply walked of their own volition but this fair weather attitude to film making only reflects how little anyone involves actually cares about what they're doing.

    TF:One is seemingly set in its own universe but it takes place far enough in the past that it doesn't really matter what it does at least in regards to whatever they view as 'continuity'. But I won't be shocked if they just suddenly decide that TF:One actually IS a prequel to the movies because that'd be perfectly in line with how they view these things.

    There's clearly no plan in regards to what they're doing and where they're headed with these movies, all of it just reads like "we need these movies to do well, lets just keep throwing shit at the wall and pray we get lucky again".
     
    • Like Like x 8
  3. Dmhead

    Dmhead Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Posts:
    1,052
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Likes:
    +2,098
    The Monsterverse since 2014 Godzilla has also changed directors, but there was a continuity with all the films. That's something like you pointed out so well is lacking hard with Transformers.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Novaburnhilde

    Novaburnhilde Musically inclined Autobirb

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Posts:
    25,586
    News Credits:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +54,588
    There's absolutely nothing wrong with different directors / writers tackling films / stories in the same universe: all they have to do is COMMUNICATE with each other, plot a course together, talk about what you're going to do as a team. It's really not that hard, because even though you can still end up with a confusing / disorganized continuity at least an effort was made.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. Shadow25

    Shadow25 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Posts:
    7,544
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +21,246
    ROTB doesn't really do anything to outright contradict Bumblebee continuity-wise, it's more that it just pretty quickly blew up the scope of the whole thing by going from 'Autobots vs. Decepticons' to 'Autobots vs. Terrorcons and Unicron vs. Maximals and also now GI Joe' over the course of one movie. And that escalation seems poised to continue now that we know TF x GI Joe is indeed the next movie.

    An over-arching story is something that's been seen as more important to ongoing franchises lately since the dawn of the MCU. The Bay movies peaked prior to this so it was understandably a bit less of a concern (and even then, despite a few inconsistencies, wasn't really a major issue until TLK).
     
    • Like Like x 9
  6. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Posts:
    45,601
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Location:
    [REDACTED]
    Likes:
    +41,619
    No, it was AoE that took a sledgehammer to everything. TF1 outright established an origin scenario with the AllSpark, which wasn't that developed itself in the basic lore but generally was decent enough for the limited role it served, and both ROTF and DOTM stayed in line with this by simply not contradicting it outright.

    And then AoE comes in with 'The Creators' who suddenly were the ones responsible and NOT the AllSpark? We know now from concept art that 'The Creators' were just going to be the Quints again, but in terms of the Bayverse they are the single most hollow concept out of everything, because they are ultimately nothing more than the excuse to justify Lockdown doing anything in the movie. Not to mention how stupid Transformium is, given back in 2007 and 2009, the AllSpark didn't need that bullshit to make Transformers out of any advanced form of technology, but suddenly 'programable matter' exists with a base root of carbon based lifeforms?

    This is the SAME PROBLEM that G1 has, because of multiple choice origin of Transformers themselves between the 'Quintesson slave uprising', the Primus/Unicron conflict, or they simply just naturally existed somehow.

    TLK, for all its innumerable problems, was just the attempt to solve the problems AoE introduced that didn't have good solutions to begin with, because AoE was a sorry attempt at a soft reboot so Paramount could have the proverbial cake and eat it, too.

    Other than completely ignoring the entire reason the Autobots came to Earth?
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2024
    • Like Like x 5
  7. Yodoswaginz

    Yodoswaginz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2021
    Posts:
    373
    Trophy Points:
    142
    Likes:
    +1,109
    Totally agree with this (even though I actually really like AOE). It's very clear with hindsight from TLK that they were just making stuff up as they went along in AOE, without a plan and without regard to continuity. In AOE Lockdown was very cryptic and vague about "Creators" (plural!). And we got a brief glimpse of their arms, all tenticle like. And then TLK comes along and there is one "Creator" (singular), Quintessa - who is a robot woman. And since then there has been no plan or overall direction for the franchise.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Shadow25

    Shadow25 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Posts:
    7,544
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +21,246
    Please explain?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Posts:
    45,601
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Location:
    [REDACTED]
    Likes:
    +41,619
    I mean...the entire point of the Autobots going to Earth, as literally explained by Optimus to B-127 when giving him the mission, is to set up a base for Prime and other Autobots to rendevous and to plan out their next move. By the end of the film, Optimus has arrived and we see several other Autobot pods arriving from space.

    By ROTB, it's now seven years later. There is no base, despite building one being the sole reason they ever came to the planet to begin with. There are less total Autobots in the entire movie than there were at the end of Bumlebee (even counting Jetfire, Prime, and BB, there's one or two pods not accounted for). Prime, for whatever reason, seems to think just getting back to Cybertron is enough when he had a whole-ass army of Autobots that couldn't hold the planet, so what exactly is his tiny squad going to accomplish in trying to free Cybertron when it's crawling with Decepticons?

    Outside of an indirect reference to Charlie, ROTB basically pretends that BBM didn't even happen.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  10. JonzyYT

    JonzyYT Day 97 of waiting for SS Sunstreaker to release

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2019
    Posts:
    3,886
    News Credits:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Directly below The Enemy Scrotum
    Likes:
    +18,007
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    I wouldn't really say those pods not being included is a continuity error. Wheeljack being in Peru is a clear indication that there are other Autobots scattered around Earth.

    Also, ROTB pretends BBM didn't happen? Lmao come on man. The whole reason ROTB even happens is because of what happens in that movie. At one point, Mirage tells Noah that "Earth was supposed to be a pit stop. A place for us to regroup and rejoin the war back home. Prime feels like it's his fault that we're stranded here". Apart from that, what else do you need BBM included as reference in ROTB for?
     
    • Like Like x 13
  11. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Posts:
    45,601
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Location:
    [REDACTED]
    Likes:
    +41,619
    But WHY? What are the Autobots even DOING if they are somehow running global recon ops without a central headquarters of some sort?

    I don't know, maybe a BASE OF OPERATIONS? You know, the very thing that Prime sent Bumblebee to set up in the first place? The problem, which noticeably nobody in this thread seems to be willing to answer (because an answer does not exist), is that the Autobots went to Earth to do ONE SPECIFIC THING. Across seven years, THIS ONE THING HAS NOT HAPPENED. They're just...around New York for some reason. There is no obvious infrastructure whatsoever that the Autobots have been even making a token attempt at rebuilding their strength after getting to Earth. Even if they just had some tech inside a cave, that's literally more than what ROTB gives any reason to believe has happened in seven years.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  12. Shizuka

    Shizuka Optimus Prime's Scriptor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Posts:
    6,676
    News Credits:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +4,207
    Just because there aren't many allusions to BB, that doesn't mean there's no continuity. What do you expect from a film set 9 years later where the previous film has nothing to do with the sequel? RotB acknowledged BB, so the continuity is set. It also acknowledged characters and organisations from 07, but we'll ignore that.

    Also, didn't the films only establish that the Allspark has the power to create life? That doesn't contradict the idea that they have a creator, because the Allspark can be seen simply as the tool that the creators used, much like Quintessa's staff. Considering that Optimus didn’t know who his creator was, there's the implication that they were hands-off when actually creating Cybertronian. The fact that there were no tools left to create Cybertronians would explain why there were no new Cybertronian births.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  13. jungle penguins

    jungle penguins Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2020
    Posts:
    977
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Likes:
    +1,946
    Sequel that contradicts the original in spirit isn't always bad, but in this case it makes Optimus look dumb. Instead of planning next move, he finds Earth to be a horrible plan and they should've just fought on Cybertron. This works fine, it just doesn't seem like a good motivator for why Optimus distrusts all humans (a core part of the movie).
     
    • Like Like x 5
  14. imfallenangel

    imfallenangel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Posts:
    8,938
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Likes:
    +28,836
    I've long accepted that all of the movies after the first 2 are stand alone stories with vague references to the previous ones.

    The writing is at barely teenage maturity level, so to expect any sort of intelligence within the script is hard enough, but to expect proper continuity would like expecting a wild dog to write a symphony.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  15. JonzyYT

    JonzyYT Day 97 of waiting for SS Sunstreaker to release

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2019
    Posts:
    3,886
    News Credits:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Directly below The Enemy Scrotum
    Likes:
    +18,007
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    We don't know. Perhaps Prime sent them around the world to look for something that could take them back to Cybertron.

    What, like something we saw in TFP? Maybe, but then again, they don't have the resources. God knows how the Autobots in TFP even managed to get inside a whole ass mountain and build a base without being spotted. Back to my point, they couldn't build a base so instead they chose to hideout in an abandoned warehouse. It's possibly not the only "base" they've had either.

    Now with G.I. Joe involved however, chances are they will be given a base of operations, and may even have the resources to build a ship that could take them back to Cybertron.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Posts:
    45,601
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Location:
    [REDACTED]
    Likes:
    +41,619
    Sure, the simple thing, and something AoE should have straight up done, was attribute the AllSpark's creation to the Creators...except this would completely invalidate the entire plot.

    See, the AllSpark can imbue advanced technology with life to turn them into Transformers, as demonstrated in 2007 and ROTF. This did not need any special materials beyond AllSpark energy, to the point Ratchet outright says Megatron could raise a new army with the AllSpark turning every human machine into a Decepticon. But then, if the AllSpark can do this...why bother with Transformium?

    Likewise, Transformium is some kind of substance that can assume any physical Propeties that are desired (thus, scientifically, it can't even be called metal, nor should it even be called Transformium but that's a separate matter), but humans are able to create whole new Transformers from Transformium and even resurrect Megatron who has literally died twice by this point and doesn't have a spark. If humans, a relatively primitive civilization in comparison to Cybertronian or even Creator technology, can outright make new Transformers and resurrect the dead without the AllSpark, and without even needing conventional Transformer things like the Spark...why did the Creators need to make the AllSpark in the first place? To say nothing of the fact Transformium based Transformers evidently don't need Energon since even Cybertronians can't produce it without very specific equipment (the whole point of the Solar Harvester was to generate Energon by draining stars and also recharge the AllSpark), yet somehow the human made knock offs don't have this problem.

    So, if you had the AllSpark, you don't need Transformium, and if you had Transformium, you don't need the AllSpark. It makes no sense why the Creators would have to develop both when really, Transformium just seems so much more efficient and had to have come first before the allSpark if all Cybertronians are made of Transformium to begin with.

    Exactly. If ROTB's whole "Prime is depressed and distrustful of humanity" schtick was set to happen even a year after BBM, it'd make more sense. Instead, he's spent seven years and has absolutely nothing to show for it whatsoever. And given in BBM, Shatter and Dropkick literally build a superpowered radio tower out of scrap and spit in a couple of hours, there's no excuse for why Optimus and a team of Autobots couldn't manage some kind of forward operating headquarters in SEVEN YEARS.

    What evidence in the movie suggests this? You can make up answers all you like but the fact remains there is noting in the movie to suggest this. And even if they did find something, it wouldn't be some OP bullshit like the Transwarp Key, so where would they take it? Times Square, maybe? Or how about the Indinapolis Speedway?

    Silly suggestions, obviously, and for that maybe instead they should have a secret base the humans don't know about where they could develop this theoretical discovery to get home. It's not like every single other series in this franchise has both sides set up a base of some sort immediately after arriving on the planet or anything.

    Congratulations, you've proven you didn't even watch Prime because they actually do explain that base. It's a decommissioned missile base on loan from the US Army, as mentioned by Ratchet during the Darkness Rising 5-part opening plot. Prime's problem is it doesn't actually explain how the Autobots became strongly supported by the US Military Industrial complex, but they're so tight that when the first base gets blown up...the Autobots just move to another US Army base in the area instead.

    Again; this is after SEVEN YEARS and they CROSSED AN ENTIRE COUNTRY UNDETECTED. And as I pointed out earlier, Shatter and Dropkick had NO PROBLEM creating a giant radio tower to phone Cybertron out of literal Earth scrap in maybe two hours, and after successfully developing what is basically the entire internet using S7's computers which is just 1980s tech at best.

    And while an abandoned industrial facility would make for a good base, it's obvious that the one in ROTB isn't a base. What do they do at the base? There's no signs of them having lived in it or arranged things to be more hospitable for even a temporary stay, no equipment to perform repairs or the like. Hell, you have WHEELJACK in this movie and you're telling me he couldn't build anything out of scrap, when the previous movie had the Cybertronian Phone Tower? Give me a break
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2024
    • Like Like x 3
  17. Nate98

    Nate98 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    Posts:
    875
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Likes:
    +3,179
    Honestly the movies never had great continuity nor tried to build up anything nor establish stuff well and keep things consistent.

    Which has always been annoying, granted films don't need to be 110% obsessed with lore and canon. But general consistency among a few films wouldn't fully hurt either, since it's less stories so it's much easier to handle than say a comic book universe.

    Even when I used to enjoy the films as a kid, I found it a headache to try and piece all 4 films together.

    Yeah that's the biggest problem, I like ROTB and it doesn't contradict BBM but they're just ramping up the scale and stakes way too quickly. Before really taking their time and building up characters, arcs and the world they're trying to show us. Really unfortunate since I liked some of Caple Jr's ideas and Bumblebee was a great refresh.

    Although I'd argue the first 4 films had a major problem with not having any meaningful arcs, thematic through line and did contradict themselves or made artefacts and ideas pointless.

    Like the Cons originally went for the Allspark, then suddenly had a random star harvester. One of the allspark shards isn't used for Optimus but the matrix is but never used again (Which always felt like a waste since it was just a key to a bigger McGuffin. Plus the Fallen could only be killed by a Prime but didn't involve the matrix though).

    Then the Cons had a plan with Sentinel to use humans to rebuild Cybertron, not really establishing if they knew earth was populated (with no explicitly stated energon source from what I remember.) Then we learn the Creators made them in AOE which was confusing.

    Yeah the MCU put a bigger importance on consistency but even then it's still not great the TF films couldn't keep it together with just 5 films. We've had film series' with generally decent consistency before hand or around the same time or at least made up for it with quality. Like LOTR, Star Wars, Spiderman and the Dark Knight trilogy etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2024
    • Like Like x 5
  18. Chaos Studios

    Chaos Studios Traditional Animator/Storyboard Artist

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Posts:
    824
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Likes:
    +2,253
    tbf theyre were working with the us military so they couldve deemed their base to be offlimits to the general public. Not to mention its in Jasper, basically a city in bumbfuck nowhere lol.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  19. RazorX3000

    RazorX3000 Cybertronian Monkey

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Posts:
    7,372
    News Credits:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +22,873
    I mean, The Suicide Squad is a different movie than the first, and doesn’t really acknowledge the events prior, but it’s 100% still canon to the first and therefore a sequel. Same thing with ROTB. Barely acknowledges Bumblebee but I mean, it’s definitely a sequel 100%.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  20. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Posts:
    45,601
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Location:
    [REDACTED]
    Likes:
    +41,619
    That's not a good comparison since 1) even the movie's very name acts like it's not really a sequel (The Suicide Squad vs just "Suicide Squad" like the first), and 2) the first movie is wholly unrelated to the second one to the point they only keep Harley Quinn as a main character because she's Harley Quinn. In-between the films...they're criminals in a jail. They're not really going to do a whole lot while incarcerated unless it's stage a prison riot or something, which obviously didn't happen.

    With ROTB, it straight up ignores the fact it needs to explain what a bunch of stranded alien robots have been doing for seven years other than crossing a couple thousand miles one way, with the whole point of what started the BBM plot was "get to Earth and set up a base for the Autobots to regroup". ROTB straight up ignored the "set up a base" part entirely, which is effectively the same as willfully ignoring BBM because, again, the whole point was to establish a safe ground for Autobots evacuating Cybertron, yet there's no such thing when we catch up with the Autobots seven years later, nor even the suggestion of an organized effort to make the best of a bad situation, or even a ready rendezvous spot for any new Autobot arrivals that made it to the planet. It's a complete failure to, again, do the one thing they came to Earth to do in the first place, and seemingly all because Prime hasn't done shit but mope about wanting to go home the entire time instead of being a leader.
     
    • Like Like x 1