Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by adamthered, Mar 3, 2010.
I’m happy to give them a look in.
It was pretty clear to me WHY she did it. Not to intimidate Cersei, or out of rage. She says it later too... She understood she will never be a queen to be loved to these people, unlike her Dothraki and Unsullied. She made the - to her, logical - choice to be a queen to be feared. After seeing this, who would ever rebel?
You know what this reminded me of? Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The USA already won the war at that point. But the Emperor would not surrender out of stubborn pride and honor, and the people follow them. Now, dropping a nuke on the palace... Would have been enough to end that, no? Instead they did it to two of the biggest industrial cities with great populations. Not just to kowtow Japan, but to send the message to the Soviets and China that they had such a weapon and would use it.
I probably will, but not officially over HBO. There's a site that streams shows/movies and I'll probably catch up with it there. If not, then I'd probably wouldn't ever watch it.
Yeah, me too. It doesn't take much effort to watch a show so, why wouldn't I.
If it sucks I'll kick rocks to another channel.
Besides, I'm still interested in the lore aspect. Got some good things going on there
The problem is HBO allowed this to happen. And not just shortened seasons. The original plan was thirteen seasons of ten episodes each. The show runners wanted to cut and run after the Red Wedding, and stepped on the gas at that point. And you can see it happening. At no point did HBO management step in and say, "uh, wait, if you don't want to do this how about we hire someone competent to continue and buy you out?" Nope. Instead they tried to cajole them into continuing, and when that didn't work they just shrugged and went, "oh well. People are stupid. They won't care."
Yes, the show runners are initially to blame, but HBO is at least as much to blame if they didn't make sure they could control the substance of what's produced as an HBO original.
Eh, that's not quite accurate. GRRM said that the show *could have gone 13 seasons IF it followed the books verbatim*, but there was never an original plan for that many. Given the increasing budget of each episode, it would have never made it past 10 at the longest anyway.
It's also easy for GRRM to say this. This is the same guy, aferall, that made everyone think they're crazy for even asking of he'd be done his books by the time the show caught up. And look at how THAT turned out. The guy still hasn't put out a new one - 2 seasons / over 3 years AFTER the show caught up. As the creator of this world, he damn well should have had infinite more say in how this all played out. I feel like his lazy ass just decided to ride the money train, and all he told the writers & HBO was "just make sure Jon kills Dany before it's over and you guys can fill in all the other gaps... just keep sending me the checks".
Quite frankly, it seems like George R. R. Martin is just as much fault in regards to the later seasons of the series as is the showrunners for not finishing the last two books like he is supposed to. I really do feel sorry for book fans and show fans alike in regards to this franchise.
I feel you guys may be missing some information on the background here. I know George has been stating the thirteen season thing here lately, but I distinctly remember that being part of the original announcement by HBO themselves at least a year or more before the first episode aired.
And people blaming George for the show's decline apparently didn't hear about all the back-stage drama between the show runners and George. He was on board up to season 4, not only as a consultant, but even going to so far as to write scripts (Battle of Blackwater Bay was him, and it shows). Then the show runners stated sniping at him and telling him the people he felt were critical to the final setup shouldn't matter because either they didn't like them or they had skipped over those parts of the books already completed. Then they started wanting to change more and more major events. Eventually he handed off his "here's the high points" and walked away as it became clear to him that they didn't want his input and wouldn't take it seriously even if they tolerated it.
Now, I won't make excuses for him not finishing the books, or at least making progress. I will say I can understand if he needed some time away after his run on the show (I believe he stopped consulting nearly full-time around season four, before season five started prepping). But, having said that, there's no real excuse for not having completed at least one more volume in the last six/seven years. However, the show runners, had they cared at all, even writing as a fan-fic, could have done MUCH better than they did.
I know not everybody agrees with me, but the Ds and HBO seem the most culpable for what happened here. George should move on the books, but the books and the show diverged quite a bit even before they ran out of source material. Finishing the story as they saw it should have taken priority over "just get it over with," and it clearly didn't.
TBH, I think it's a combination of things. For one thing, Martin's one of THOSE writers. The kind that don't plan things out, like Stephen King. That's why a lot of King's books turn to crap halfway through. Secondly, he and the tv staff apparently got into it several times, and around the time of the end of Season 4 they had a big falling out over not including Young Griff and Lady Stoneheart. Finally, he's surrounded by people who kiss his butt all of the time, and if you go to any fan site and actually complain that it's been almost a decade since ADWD, you'll be told how awful a person you are for demanding a writer cater to you.
I think I agree with this most. They were off the books in season 6 too, but season 6 is personally one of my favorite seasons. Season 7 had its problems in hindsight, but it set up for a good finale. Benioff and Weiss at least should have had the mindset of paying off plot points that they had already set up rather than wanting to have certain scenes and forcing characters into those situations.
Umm... To RULE them?
Hard to rule a bunch of undead that want to murder you and eat your brains.
Even that is not mythologically accurate. Wyverns have a poisonous stinger and cannot breathe fire. Drogon looks more like a Firedrake from D&D - not a dumb animal, but nowhere as powerful or smart as a true dragon
He’s a f’ng dragon to me; just like Godzilla and Rodan are monsters and not Muto or Kaiju’s or any other weird nerd centric designation.
Kaiju is just the Japanese word for 'strange creatures' aka monsters. Using kaiju in English is just weebs being weebs.
If they were real creatures, I could see about arguing the distinctions, but they aren’t so, it’s a Dragon if it’s a giant lizard that flies in my book.
I think it’s accepted that the A bomb usage was pretty much just to send a message to Stalin. Japan was done at that point.
Yes, that's what I said too.
Guess you learned an embellished form of history? Look it up. Japan was beaten at that point. Regular bombing runs would have accomplished the same thing. No, the US leaders already were aware that they were facing another superpower once the war was over, and sent a message to Stalin to think twice before pushing his luck. (Of course he couldn't have known there were only 2 nukes ready at the time).
It was fear tactics, and it worked, sort of. We didn't have WW3, after all. Danny did the same - make an example of King's Landing, and Dorne or the North would bend the knee rather then perish in flames. Soldiers would desert in the hundreds even at the rumor of a dragon sighting.
The link title he sent refers to some spinoff book, not the main volumes the show was based on.
Once again, I am on a phone without adblock, I don't open CBR and other such links, I based what I said on the link title. OF COURSE I know the show is based on the book series A Song of Ice and Fire, but from what I read this Griff guy does not appear in those volumes, only in some side adventure books or something? If not, then sorry. I did not read the book, I can only know what I read on wikies
Geez, sorry for what I started, and all over a stupid misunderstanding.
I am well aware the show is the adaptation of the much older books. Same as the Hobbit or lord of the Rings. But I know Martin wrote a lot of "side material" too. Like the adventures of that Targaeryen prince called Egg or something? I referred to THOSE books as spinoffs. I never read about this Griff guy before and the link also did not refer to the main books, hence why I assumed he was from one of these. I know the last book ended with Tyrion captured by a guy who is not Jorah and is not in the show. Was it that guy?
Separate names with a comma.