Game of Thrones - A Song of Ice and Fire for TV!

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by adamthered, Mar 3, 2010.

  1. BB Shockwave

    BB Shockwave Well-Known Member

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    Umm, Grey Worm was like that. WAS. Then a woman who loved him taught him he can be more and can live a full life. He started to change, no longer be a war machine. Then all that was taken away from him in an instant.
    ... Damn right he is hungry for revenge at the whole world now. Who wouldn't be?

    I am sorry but you are referring some spinoff book.
    Was he ever in the TV show in the past 7 seasons? If not, why did you expect a deus ex machina?
     
  2. LegoShokwave123

    LegoShokwave123 YOU CLOD!!!

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    "Some spinoff book"? What the heck kind of drugs are you on? The books came first. The books are what the show was supposed to be adapting. The character should have shown up in the show several seasons ago, but the creators evidently decided they didn't want to actually adapt the books properly.
     
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  3. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    Oh my God. Do you... Do you not know you’re watching an adaptation?
     
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  4. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    It's not really a spinoff book if its the original source material, predates the depiction of that time in the show (which granted, was changed significantly), and was created by the same person who provided the plot outlines to the writers of the show which lists itself as based on the book series in question. The show and the books are sort of different things, but I wouldn't call the relationship a spinoff. He plays a seemingly important part in the books (so far), but was completely absent in the show, meaning there'd be a potential missing piece to the clockwork of the story.


    One thing that I keep coming back to in the series is all the characters are seemingly unable to transcend their "nature". Tyrion ends up betraying his queen to protect his family and (presumably) turns Bronn into one of the most powerful men in the kingdom as per his promise because he is, of course, a Lannister. Dany ends up being crazy because she is, of course, a Targaryan. Jon Snow is honorable to a fault and ultimately paves a road to hell with good intentions because he is, of course, a Stark. Grey Worm, despite learning to love someone, remains a unquestioning tool of his master, because he is, of course, an Unsullied. I'm sure there are exceptions (Arya and Theon, maybe? Brienne and Sam, but their characters have their own issues), but that's the overall trend I see through and through the show. Maybe its meant to be a commentary on people who force themselves into the roles their families or the world places on them, maybe it's meant to say that in the end, people are who they're born to be and its okay to paint them with broad brushes, maybe its just lazy characterization, etc. but I sort of find the idea that you can potentially boil entire households of characters down to their banner's motto to be an unsatisfying one.
     
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  5. Rodimus Prime

    Rodimus Prime Sola Gratia, Sola Fide TFW2005 Supporter

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    BlandTallCalf-size_restricted.gif
     
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  6. Drangleic

    Drangleic Insult to injury

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    Nope. Now you have the prequel to contend with. :ev: 
     
  7. Night Flame

    Night Flame TFW2005 Supporter

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    Funny, I was just thinking about doing a write up about why some people are upset about the way the end of the series was handled, and some people aren't, and you provide a shining example of what one of my arguments was going to be.

    People enjoy entertainment in different ways. Some people enjoy the intricacies of the plot, the depth of characters, the plotting and scheming and sometimes even the thoughts of what went into the creative process itself. Others enjoy spectacle, allowing it to wash over them in a more passive way, never fully investing in the characters, the plot, the machinations of the politics, or whatever else is happening. I'm not going to say that either way is the "correct" way to take in entertainment. I'll just say that those are definitely two very different perspectives that exist.

    Game of Thrones became a cultural phenomenon for the precise reason that it could pull in both types of people. In the early seasons there was plenty of spectacle, but there was also a plethora of colorful characterization, political intrigue, interactions among individuals and houses, bloodlines and families, all set on a backdrop to die for if you love huge set pieces and gruesome living conditions. Add in the fact that the books universe had existed for some people for at least a decade when it kicked off, and you have some rabid fans already built in. Those fans are more likely to be interested in the depths of the story and characters, but that's not to say they're the only ones that came in with that view.

    And in the pursuing years, some that showed up for the spectacle began to appreciate the depth of the show as they witnessed it without ever intending to. Others remained steadfast in their love of the spectacle, and their enjoyment of the shocking turns and huge reveals.

    Fast forward a few years and the show begins dropping intrigue and plotting, focusing more and more on the spectacle. Hollywood has plenty of spectacle already, so those that showed up for the deeper characterization and plots that actually had content rather than just huge twists and turns without reason begin to be disappointed. But they are reminded time and again that these people know what they are doing, and it will all pay off in the end. So, some of them wait it out, though some did stop watching due to disappointment. Not all of these were previously book readers either, though I will admit to seeing that particular crowd be more likely to give up in frustration at the important plot elements being dropped for no apparent reason other than shortening story threads and moving things along faster. You can include George himself in this crowd. I won't speculate whether he still watches the show, but I do know he stopped being directly involved after the show runners told him the people he considered important for the end game would be skipped over because the show runners didn't like the characters. (For those keeping score, Lady Stoneheart was the straw that broke the camel's back here from what I've heard.)

    And now, the final season. Those entranced with the spectacle are happy, as well they should be. They signed up for huge set pieces, massive armies clashing in battle, dragons and flame, death and shocks. They got everything they wanted. Those waiting for the reveal of where it was all leading character wise, plot wise, politically, or to see the culmination of the years of build up for the white walkers and the Night King, the prophecies, the groundwork laid for eight seasons paying off in some real way? They have a right to be disappointed. They were ignored. Plot no longer mattered. Characters turned on a dime because believable situations needed to fold in order to rush to the end. And the deep political threads woven through the first few seasons made even less sense in the end than they had when Cersei declared herself queen and no one protested even a little.

    Neither group is completely wrong, but the anger at each other seems foolish. The show runners could have chosen to end this the same way the began it. Ending it with depth, full and believable character arcs that were fleshed out all the way, and non comedic fulfillment of at least some of the promise the show began with wouldn't have disappointed the people there for spectacle. The spectacle would always be there. But those that wanted more question why what began with such promise couldn't have ended as something more than what every big budget Hollywood schlockfest gives us these days. There's a million ways to fulfill your entertainment needs if you're looking for spectacle over substance. I'm a fan of many of those properties myself. Fast and the Furious movies are terrific to shut down your brain and just watch the crazy. So many action franchises are built on this premise. Several sit-coms do the job nicely. But for those that loved that something big budget didn't immediately sink to the lowest common denominator when Game of Thones started, to see it go that direction at the end left them disappointed. And in some cases more than disappointed.

    The "you're wrong" attitude being bandied about between fans is just silly. The show runners could have chosen to do this in a way that left everyone satisfied. Instead, they publicly stated they wanted to get this over with as quickly as they could, and told HBO they wanted smaller seasons (and less than originally agreed to) because they had done the one scene they wanted when they completed the Red Wedding. Then they signed for Star Wars while working on the final season and gave even less of a shit than they had before. The end result is a spectacle, for sure, but a spectacle that rings hollow for some of us. I don't fault those that didn't care about the depth of the show before. I fault the show runners for focusing completely on getting done as fast as they could so they could move on rather than giving the story a believable conclusion for all the fans, regardless of their perspective on why they started watching.

    With the frayed emotions at the moment, referring to the source as "some spinoff book" is bound to ruffle some feathers. Sorry for what you're bound to endure for saying it.
     
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  8. Killamarshan

    Killamarshan Iacon Tourist

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    Indeed, Missandei tought Grey Worm to be all he could be - which turned out to be a vengeance fuelled proponent of genocide. :rolleyes:  Even the dragon knew what was committed was wrong, but not the guy D&D convinced you had discovered his humanity.

    I'm afraid Grey Worm was done dirty by the show. But he certainly wasn't alone.
     
  9. Rodimus Prime

    Rodimus Prime Sola Gratia, Sola Fide TFW2005 Supporter

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    Pretty much all of the characters were done dirty by the final season. There's a really great video I have seen that explains how much each character gets screwed up, from a writing perspective, but I figure most people are tired of videos already .
     
  10. Killamarshan

    Killamarshan Iacon Tourist

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    The show perfected the art. Look at the Unnamed Prince of Dorne, he was on screen for less than 30 seconds and only said one word - but was still completely shat on.
     
  11. Night Flame

    Night Flame TFW2005 Supporter

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    As much as they botched the Dorne story on the show, it would have been neat if they could have stayed internally consistent. No more being lead be week men? Unnamed Dornish Prince shows up long enough to look ineffectual. Perfect!
     
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  12. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    As many as three prequels, allegedly. Ill believe it when the first season drops.

    And even then, I'm not invested in them like I was the series (due to the books, which will probably never be completed), and I guess I already know how the story ends, in a basic sense.

    I'm sure he gets assassinated or something in a few weeks.
     
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  13. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    [​IMG]
     
  14. Rodimus Prime

    Rodimus Prime Sola Gratia, Sola Fide TFW2005 Supporter

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    Smaug is overrated. Ancalagon is where it is at.
     
  15. Rodentus prime

    Rodentus prime Old Git

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    Tiamat or GTFO.
    :wink: 
     
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  16. Drangleic

    Drangleic Insult to injury

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    Falkor teabags both!
     
  17. Night Flame

    Night Flame TFW2005 Supporter

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    Are people actually going to give the prequels a chance? I can't imagine trusting HBO to be in charge of anything else related to this property. They might get the first season right, maybe, but if it goes off the rails they won't do a thing to right it.
     
  18. gil

    gil Godmaster

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    I googled something like that years ago, and clicked on a discussion that degraded into guys refusing to call Drogon a Dragon because he has two legs, so he's a Wyvern. Crazy fans!
     
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  19. OmegaTaco Supreme

    OmegaTaco Supreme Shut up Blur! ~The Rude Awakening of Optimus TFW2005 Supporter

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    I dont blame HBO. They wanted a full season for the last. I blame the writers that wanted to wrap it up quickly, so they can start getting that sweet SW Disney money.

    This is the better ending!
     
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  20. Incepticon

    Incepticon Well-Known Member

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    No, not anymore. If S7 and especially S8 are any indication of what happens when there are no books to go off of, fuck it, I learned my lesson.
     
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