Galvatron I vs Galvatron II

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by TFFan01, Dec 22, 2019.

  1. TFFan01

    TFFan01 Well-Known Member

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    Which one is the better and more badass Galvatron, character-wise?

    Which one would win in a fight?

    Edit: This probably should have been in the comics forum, sorry.
     
  2. Bass X0

    Bass X0 Captain Commando

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    What about all the different Galvatrons between I and II? Don’t they count?

    II is not even the second Galvatron in the American Marvel comics.
     
  3. TFFan01

    TFFan01 Well-Known Member

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    I felt that those versions were too minor, but if you want to include them, go ahead.
     
  4. AgentAlabama113

    AgentAlabama113 Wily Old Buzzard

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    I'd compare it to movie and season 3 Galvatron. One is powerful but intelligent, the other is insane and that raw power is left unchecked. Galvatron I is a threat to the Autobots. Galvatron II is a threat to everybody.
     
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  5. Bass X0

    Bass X0 Captain Commando

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    I'm just saying its wrong to call the one from Rhythms of Darkness "Galvatron II" as he is not the second Galvatron.
     
  6. CyberstormSM

    CyberstormSM Turbo-Revvin' Young Punk

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    Most people just call him Galvatron II because the only other major version of Galvatron in the comics was the Marvel UK one.
     
  7. Agamus

    Agamus Not an Iguana

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    I mean Unicron picked Galvatron II specificially because he beat Rodimus and Galvatron I didn't, so... in terms of known feats, odds are on Galvatron II.
    He's called Galvatron II in Alignment, it's kinda canon. Plus it's kind of... timey-wimey, for lack of a better term. AoE Galvatron and Earthforce Galvatron are mostly variations of I and II, Aspects Galvatron being a somehow-not-dead Galvatron I and Earthforce Galvatron being the original intent for Galvatron II before Furman gave up on continuity. So yeah no they don't really count since neither were in the main timeline anyways.
     
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  8. Bass X0

    Bass X0 Captain Commando

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    I'm from the UK and grew up reading the Marvel UK comics in the 80s and early 90s.
     
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  9. Swerve

    Swerve Well-Known Member

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    Galvatron II (Or Rhythms Galvatron if you prefer) is seen in Issue 75 fuming at the Transformers' cowardice and then getting bitch slapped in the face by Unicron for his trouble. He next shows up freshly healed and shiny and new - when no one else is - hanging round the Ark, where various Transformers are being repaired and revived from stasis pods thanks to Grimlock thinking that reading labels is too onerous a job.

    Since time travel is kind of his thing, I assume that after getting thumped by his boss, he decided to fix the situation and unleash the Autobots aggressive potential properly (from his slightly skewed moral compass, anyway), time jumped back to during the Matrix Quest in a weakened state after the slap (the five Classic Heroes are able to subdue him at one point), arranged Perchance to Dream, causing Earthforce to be a thing and Unicron to get slapped in the face in turn by the Ark (not planned, but poetic justice), and ending up in a stasis pods himself at the end of Perchance to Dream, as shown. Hence him then being revived and showing up with the stolen Ark in "Still Life".

    As for "Aspects" Galvatron... this doesn't work with RG1, but fits fine with "Another Time & Place", "Generation 2" and "Alignment":

    At the end of "Another Time & Place" Megatron dies. However, on Earth, Ratchet was practically flagged by and simultaneously soaked in Nucleon, with his body already mixed up with Megatron's on an atomic level. The Nucleon tries to revive him over the years, with the final push being Megatron's death on Hydrus 4, and the "miracle cure" finding a way to heal even "one cannot survive without the other" - it does to Ratchet what the Last Autobot did to Hi-Q in fact, rebuilds and restores him (mind and body) according to the strongest template and personality, but with the second individual still in there deep down. Thus, G2 Ratchet, an immensely powerful homicidal death machine on the surface who calls himself and remembers himself as Megatron, but who deals with his stress by wise cracks and back talk, who is an unexpected medical genius on occasion, who finds that he and Optimus are actually better comrades than enemies, and who asks for Grimlock to be muzzled.

    So, G2 happens. The war ends. Then Galvatron II resurfaces, starts it again, kills Optimus Prime again for a while, and begins ruling Cybertron with a reign of terror until 2009.

    Then, Rodimus and friends pop up. They come from the old movie timeline, the one which was changed by Galvatron's mucking about with history and the Time Wars, and as such, as the last survivors, have finally returned to 2009, only to find it changed. As before, Galvatron had been created by Unicron (in a different reality) but this time hadn't travelled back... because he'd already done that, he came the long way round.

    Unfortunately too, Rodimus is still carrying the corrupted Matrix. In consequence, "Aspects of Evil" #2, the "Shadow of Evil" arc, and "Aspects of Evil" #5 happen. Notably, there's no issue that "Aspects of Evil" #1, #3, and #4 don't fit into this continuity, because they're from Rodimus' memories - he remembers a three way Decepticon civil war that Scorponok lost in '92, Megatron skulking on Cybertron in '90, and Shockwave sulking on Earth in '03 from his own experiences, growing up in the movie timeline.

    Later, "Alignment" happens. Later still, the "Aspects of Evil" framing story happens. Even more laterer still, "Peace" happens.

    As to the actual question, depends when in their timelines. Galvatron I appears to have more raw power going by his interactions with others, and before Fallen Angel is a brilliant strategist, though after that his sanity depends on which way the wine's blowing. Galvatron II though, is cleverer most of the time, after he's left his own time and pragmatism has mostly subsumed his early megalomania.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
  10. Insurgent

    Insurgent Big Red Fire Snorting Dragon

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    Galvatron II (Rythms of darkness galvatron?) may have taken down Rodimus in his time, but are we counting the 'retcon' from Regeneration One where a Hot Rod from an alternate timeline came into the Rythms timeline and took the Matrix out of the Rythm timeline? If so, that means Galvatron II was fighting a non matrix powered Rodimus. I'm sure I read in an interview once that Furman intended that timeline in RG1 to carry on into the Rythms timeline. But if so, that does skew the power level achievement a little.


    But regardless, Galvatron II ended up getting beaten by Fortress and buried in Ice. Galvatron I took down pretty much all assembled Autobots and Decepticons and the only way he was stopped was by having a rift in space and time (one powerful enough to destroy the entire universe, may I add) literally rip him apart to his bare skeleton and suck him up into oblivion. All while he shouted defiantly at it. And when the guys went back into the Future, wasn't Galvatron there alive and well again? And was winning overall? Does that still count as Galvatron I?

    I was going to say Galvatro 1 would win in a straight fight, but while looking him up on wiki, it has this:

    Which Galvatron was more impressive? After the movie, "Galvatron I" went on in the UK comic to be shot by just about every Transformer you can name, buried in a volcano, soundly beaten by Ultra Magnus on more than one occasion, then half-decapitated before finally being destroyed by a rift in space and time. The cartoon timeline was kinder to him, but he still blew up two planets and drove another one insane. On the other hand, Galvatron II helped Unicron win, then killed Rodimus Prime and conquered the Americas, successfully lied to Primus (who, as a god, can be expected to know everything), used that lie to set the entire Transformer race against Unicron (whom he then shot in the face), got a divine swat in return, bounced through a building and across Cybertron's surface but survived without a scratch, then was the only one to immediately walk away from the Ark's second crash on Earth.


    So I don't know. Galvatron II survived more and was probably more craftier, but Galvatron I seemed tougher to ultimately take down (although I question that soundly beaten by Ultra Magnus on more than one occasion, it was my remembering that Galvatron won all their straight fights and Magnus only saved the day by doing things like sacrificing himself and blowing up volcanos).
     
  11. Swerve

    Swerve Well-Known Member

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    Ultimately, in attempting to categorise Galvatrons, we must remember one key fact.

    "Fools! Galvatron can be any temporal iteration number he wants!"

    Then we realise that in reality, changing history has nothing to do with Galvatron reappearing after the Time Wars, and more to do with Galvatron having thrown Death into a volcano ( literally true if one takes the IDW retro thing with Action Force into account ) and stolen his lunch money.
     
  12. Joey Slick

    Joey Slick Whirl is a Transformer.

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    If you only read U.S. Marvel, there's only one Galvatron right?
     
  13. Swerve

    Swerve Well-Known Member

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    If you only read the US bit of the story, then you'd presumably be treating Wreck-Gar's bedtime story from the prologue to "Space Pirates", the "Big Broadcast of 2006" as a glimpse into the future, rather than a fiction within a fiction. So, there are probably still two Galvatrons, since it's hard to see how you'd get from there- with Cybertron intact and shiny, and the Autobots clearly dominant, to "Rhythms of Darkness" where things unequivocably went straight downhill after Galvatron's creation, without a bit of sideways wiggle room on the old timelines.

    One question I wonder, is whether "Target : 2006" Galvatron is technically the same as "Fallen Angel" Galvatron. It depends upon your interpretation of how changing history works in the particular series, which was neither nailed down nor consistent.

    History doesn't appear to change whilst there's an active agent from the future still in the past- the two get treated as distinct 'places'- hence "Time Wars" talking about "four worlds". It's very noticeable, and deliberately drawn-attention-to, during the "Wanted: Galvatron : Dead or Alive" arc, that the Ultra Magnus of 2007 is not able to remember the events affecting his 1987 self; that for him, this is a different history. However, Galvatron clearly expects in "Target : 2006" to be able to return to an 'improved' future, with his weapon in place, and goes on expecting it until he's conned into believing the timelines have already diverged to a paradoxical extent; a parallel dimension- at which point, he does a one hundred and eighty, and confidently assumes that he'll be returning to his own, unaltered future.

    This makes sense; he can empirically realise that he can't have erased himself from existence, because he, well, hasn't. This seems to suggest then, that the future Autobots have conned him as to what the rules of time travel actually are, meaning that we're fairly in the dark still as to what would have happened if he actually had killed Starscream.

    So, according to the logic of in-series time travel, it's reasonable to expect to be able to change events in the past to suit present needs, provided that you don't create a paradox in doing so. Galvatron, in "Target : 2006" actually seems to be going out of his way to avoid a paradox; the ending suggests that this is because he knows that, if he creates a paradox, everything he does will be pointless because it just won't happen.

    However, Galvatron does change history. The events of "Prey" largely happen as a consequence of "Target : 2006", and, in the full UK continuity at least, "Afterdeath" and "Gone but not Forgotten" are clear consequences of the "Prey" arc, with Optimus freshly guilt-ridden about involving innocents and Megatron's skull being an increasingly untidy place.

    It may in fact be a fallacy to consider "Target : 2006" as originating from the 'Movie Future'. We see certain events from the Movie in it, certainly- but rather differently; notably, Optimus standing triumphant over a defeated Megatron- although later dialogue from Hot Rod makes it clear the Matrix was still passed on to Ultra Magnus. Perhaps the 'Movie Timeline' as we know it; Unicron losing on Cybertron in 2006, Shockwave assuming control of the Decepticons, Galvatron travelling back again, through to "Legacy of Unicron", "Space Pirates" et al is a consequence of Galvatron's changes to history?

    For that to work, it would suggest a model of the 'ripple effect' whereby the ripples propagate only when time travel has ceased; that whilst the Galvatron of 2006 is active in 1986, 1986 and 2006 exist as separate dimensions of reality relative to one another; but when the last time traveller (in the case of "Target : 2006", that would be Unicron's consciousness, in #88) returns home, and the mass-gaps are refilled from limbo, the timelines re-synchronise.

    This would tie up with "Aspects of Evil", in that there, Rodimus Prime's group return to 2009; leaving 1989 and thus allowing the timelines to repair themselves, and ending up in the future after the repair; history as the remainder of the G1 comic has made it.