G1 Cartoon Kup Question

Discussion in 'Transformers Cyberverse and Cartoon Discussion' started by jscott991, May 15, 2019.

  1. jscott991

    jscott991 Well-Known Member

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    I'm always trying to make sense of the G1 cartoon in my head (it's a tough thing to do). I've never had much interest in the movie / season 3 characters, but my recent purchase of some third party Arcees caused me to start thinking about Hot Rod, Kup, and Arcee.

    Four million years ago, the war between the Autobots and the Decepticons left the former near extinction and the planet drained of resources (the narrator tells us this as the pilot opens). So Optimus Prime takes his remaining forces (minus Elita One's small team) on a mission to find more energy. Megatron takes a lot of the remaining Decepticons in pursuit (leaving behind Shockwave and at least some seekers, plus robot sentinels). Those guys disappear for four million years (yes, it's a staggering amount of time).

    Flash forward to 2005. Kup, Arcee, Hot Rod, and others suddenly appear. Kup's whole shtick is that he's some kind of grizzled veteran . . . except no war has been going on for four million years, right? There wasn't anybody left to fight on Cybertron (even Elita One kept her presence entirely hidden until a major blunder in 1985). Megatron and Prime and their companions were gone. Who has Kup been fighting? When did he cut his teeth?

    The four million year gap between Optimus leaving Cyberton and waking up on Earth causes a lot of problems, but it's especially problematical as new characters were introduced on Earth and in the movie.
     
  2. ABrown

    ABrown Well-Known Member

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    There were like two minute clip shows at the end of the season three episodes. They were titled "The Secret Files of Teletraan II" (see below). One of them said something about the season three Autobots being "reunited from other regions of the galaxy". While I found the clips to be entertaining, I thought that the explanation for the season three Autobots was kind of stupid.

     
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  3. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    In the Ultimate Doom, Optimus Prime allows Cybertron to be transported into Earth atmosphere because he has many friends (I assume on Cybertron). In Child's Play, Chip (or Spike) says that he has contacted Cybertron, but there is no word on the missing Autobots.

    I like to think that the war continued on Cybertron but not as intensely because of energy shortages.
     
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  4. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    Trying to put this explanation of their introduction into headcanon, I assume that those Autobots in the clip, job was to get energy for the remaining Autobots on Cybertron (thus they spent most of their time away from Cybertron).
     
  5. jscott991

    jscott991 Well-Known Member

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    This is certainly possible. It's not directly contradicted by the show. But it's pretty heavily implied in The Search for Alpha Trion that Shockwave thinks there are no Autobots left on Cybertron. Now all of the references are to female Autobots, but we never see Shockwave dealing with anyone else. There are other episodes where the Autobots return to Cybertron and never interact with anyone else (well, other than Shockwave). The idea of the Decepticons being in total control of Cybertron factors into many episodes (the one where the Dinobots return, the one where the Combaticons take over, etc.).

    Kup could have been fighting Decepticons outside of Cybertron, I guess. Or he could have fought Decepticons prior to Optimus's departure, and then stopped for 4,000 millenia. But I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense.
     
  6. Liege Nemesis

    Liege Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    The easiest assumption is that Optimus Prime's group weren't nearly the whole of the Autobot forces. Shockwave's belief that there are no Autobots left to fight already flies in the face of other episodes that presume there are at least pockets of Autobot resistance left, of which Elita-1's team is a small component. The Decepticons maintain total control of the planet not because they're literally all that's left, but simply because they hold all the strategically important locations and have limited the Autobots to small-scale guerilla-style rebel cells. It's not an unreasonable assumption that Shockwave's statement that there aren't any autobots left are either specifically to female autobots or that he's speaking figuratively in a "there's nobody left to stand against us" type of fashion.

    After all, we can't just assume that seeing no other Autobots means there aren't any. We hardly ever see any Decepticons left on Cybertron after the pilot besides Shockwave and the assortment of background/extra seekers like Sunstorm/Acid Storm and company. That doesn't mean they aren't there. They logically must be if the Decepticons can retain total control over the planet.

    also it's a pretty safe bet that Kup was off world for a long time. Think about how many of his war stories revolve around encounters on other planets.
     
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  7. Rodimus Prime

    Rodimus Prime Sola Gratia, Sola Fide TFW2005 Supporter

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    The cartoon is incredibly inconsistent. I prefer to imagine it's like it was shown in the original comics, with small groups of Autobots fighting a guerrilla war against the decepticons.
     
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  8. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    I like to think the generic seekers were fighting or at least keeping the remaining Autobots on Cybertron occupied. For me, this explains why you do not see any Autobots who remained on Cybertron (other than the Fembots or Alpha Trion) in seasons 1 and 2 and why you never see the generic seekers after the Ultimate Doom episode (before the 1986 movie).

    I have written fan-fiction about this topic.

    Transformers G1 Sunbow behind the Scenes 1985 - 2006

    In essence, I like to think there was a major battle on Cybertron after the Child's Play episode and before the Search for Alpha Trion episode.

    The aftermath is that all surviving Autobots bar Alpha Trion fled Cybertron and headed to a planet where the Autobots where getting energy from during the 4M years that Optimus Prime and company were offline.

    Alpha Trion was injured in the battle and was saved by Punch/CounterPunch. There is a bit of a convoluted explanation of the Fembots.

    After the Search for Alpha Trion episode, I like to think that Optimus provided additional protection for Alpha Trion and the Fembots in the way of more troops to Cybertron.
     
  9. Gamma V

    Gamma V Active Member

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    I agree with the idea that he and the others were either off-world or part of a resistance cell similar to Elita's. There no doubt had to be other Decepticons besides Shockwave there too, as he could no doubt only do so much with drones like the Sentinels. We do see other Seekers in Season 1, and there's no official material that I know of saying the ones we saw were killed. Bluestreak shot the Rainmakers down, but they weren't important enough characters for the writers to pursue further, so their fate is left open for interpretation. I remember imagining that, indeed, Elita's femmes weren't the only guerrilla resistance cell on Cybertron. I always imagined other cells existing that consisted of the various toy-exclusive characters, such as the Jumpstarters, Omnibots, and Powerdashers.

    Them being off-world is also possible. During Fight or Flee, we see MULTIPLE Ark-like ships launching from Cybertron during Sandstorm's flashback/history lesson on Paradron. The fact that, at least in some G1 continuities, the Ark is given an official classification suggests that it's not the only ship of its kind. It may have been the last though. Remember that the war we see has been raging for 5 million years prior to the start of More Than Meets the Eye.
     
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  10. Jonas14

    Jonas14 Member

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    The original question is already answered.
    Along with the in show explanation I figured that as they became more capable of travelling through space again (series1 they could only travel to Cybertron via the space bridge or when it was in Earth's orbit) they indeed were reunited as the universe expanded and time travel a possibility.
    It suggested there's stuff going on when don't get to see, which worked for me (until the autobot headmasters arrived on the scene), as its logical. (as opposed to say the end of Star Wars Episode III and apparently nothing happening until Star Wars Episode 4 20years later)
     
  11. setsuna

    setsuna Well-Known Member

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    Offworld expedition force makes sense. Once Prime was able to get a better foothold on earth after S1-2 of the show, the Autobots had more resources and was able to bring Kup, Hot Rod, Arcee, Blur, Magnus, n Springer to earth.

    Still don’t get how Wheelie ended up on Quintessa though?
     
  12. Liege Nemesis

    Liege Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    That's easy: Millions of years ago, whatever Autobot group he was with got so annoyed and sick of him that they stranded him there and never returned.
     
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  13. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    I posted something similar on a thread about Wheelie, I like to think that Wheelie was created by maybe Alpha Trion through Vecta Sigma in the not too distant past but before 1984. In any case, Wheelie was on a mission with a small crew, whether to find fuel or the Ark (something relevant to the Autobot cause on Cybertron) and Wheelie was the only survivor of that mission (whether killed by Quintessons or Decepticons (would like it to be Constructicons)) and stranded on or near Quintessa.