G1/Beast Wars timeline query

Discussion in 'Transformers Cyberverse and Cartoon Discussion' started by Prime of Shadows, May 22, 2019.

  1. Prime of Shadows

    Prime of Shadows Quick as Lightning

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Posts:
    3,281
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Houston, USA
    Likes:
    +9,762
    YouTube (Old):
    So the Great War raged for millions of years right? And it ended, finally, in The Rebirth, in the 21st century. And the Beast Wars characters are from the 24th century. So why do they act as if the Autobots and Decepticons are complete antiques that lived so long ago? Shouldn’t 300 years be nothing to them? And how did they advance so far technologically in such a comparatively short time? I suppose if they aren’t constantly at war they could make great strides in technology, but that doesn’t answer everything. Is there perhaps a comic that explains this?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's Zvil!"

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Posts:
    15,471
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    Likes:
    +15,280
    First of all, understand that Beast Wars is a pseudo-sequel. There are lots of G1 references but they pull from random elements from across everything that G1 was as media...bios, comics and the cartoon.

    That said, if we take the transition from the The Great War to where the Maximals and Predacons are at this point, it's basically as transformative as humanity's "Industrial Revolution". If you look at where humanity was in, say, 1200 AD versus 2500 BC, the differences are fairly minimal despite some innovations here and there in the realm of transportation and warfare. But if you look at the difference between 2019 AD and 1719 AD, we might as well live on another planet. Time isn't as much a factor as tech innovations and the obvious switch over to Micromaster tech coupled with protoform tech and transwarp drives in the spirit of exploration over warfare has obviously had an impact on Cybertronian society - to the point that even just 300 years ago seems like 300,000 to them.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  3. Fenrys

    Fenrys Formerly Tigatron2002

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    44,765
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Location:
    Virginia, United States
    Likes:
    +85,199
    Ebay:
    sunbow g1 doesn't have an end to the war. it has the introduction of a new golden age, but that doesnt mean the war is over, especially since galvatron and scorponok swore to return. remember when rodimus claims the destruction of unicron is the end of the cybertronian wars, yet at the beginning of season 3 the bots and cons are back at it again.

    i like to think that there is still a chunk of the war that gets fought that we dont see in the american media (i fill this in with the takara trilogy personally) that helps to give a bit more of a gap between the g1 cartoon and beast wars
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Prime of Shadows

    Prime of Shadows Quick as Lightning

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Posts:
    3,281
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Houston, USA
    Likes:
    +9,762
    YouTube (Old):
    I agree with most of this. But the Transformers are much more long-lived than humans, obviously. Why did the Maximals and Predacons act as if they had all been dead for (to them) a very long time? Was there a massacre at the very end of the war?
     
  5. Prime of Shadows

    Prime of Shadows Quick as Lightning

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Posts:
    3,281
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Houston, USA
    Likes:
    +9,762
    YouTube (Old):
    This also makes sense, but gives the Autobots and Decepticons even less time to make the transition to the micromaster process and begin interstellar exploration. I wonder how much longer the war lasted...
     
  6. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's Zvil!"

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Posts:
    15,471
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    Likes:
    +15,280
    Good question. In the case of Transformers, one would think ancestors could easily be contemporaries (which was the case with Ravage). As long as you remember this is a QUASI-sequel, though, you just go with the flow.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Fenrys

    Fenrys Formerly Tigatron2002

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    44,765
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Location:
    Virginia, United States
    Likes:
    +85,199
    Ebay:
    well if you include the japanese series as part of the timeline then autobots and decepticons started utilizing smaller bodies as early as headmasters, but micromasters didnt make their debut till victory, and even then there were still plenty of larger bots and such around. also it doesnt give them any less time to make the transition. no matter how you cut it beast wars is 300 years post end of the war, but none of the cartoons ever really cover a definitive end. the war could have lasted millions of more years, bw would still be 300 years later, but it was specifically the sunbow g1 s1 guys that were regarded as ancient/legendary.

    also keep in mind that the episode possession states that the maximal elders sealed all records of the war so the public has very little info on what happened
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's Zvil!"

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Posts:
    15,471
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    Likes:
    +15,280
    "The Great War" technically ends with the destruction with Unicron. While Season 3 does indeed have additional fighting, this is essentially a new era of skirmishes that lasts only a year or so until The Golden Age begins. You really could call it "The Unicron Battles" as it's even shorter than the so-called "Beast Wars" fought on pre-historic Earth.

    I personally also prefer to jettison "The Rebirth" and go with the Japanese trilogy for seasons 4, 5 & 6. But it's obvious those series don't play into "Beast Wars", unfortunately, which is what this thread is referring to.
     
  9. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's Zvil!"

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Posts:
    15,471
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    Likes:
    +15,280
    I sometimes wonder if there was some mind-wiping going on, too. The Maximals were obviously not incorruptible and did some vaguely "grey area" things like developing Protoform X. Blackarachnia seemed to remember things when others did not...either she's older than she realizes and her conversion to Predacon caused her to forget her previous life or her mind was wiped at some point.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. Fenrys

    Fenrys Formerly Tigatron2002

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    44,765
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Location:
    Virginia, United States
    Likes:
    +85,199
    Ebay:
    that could be argued on technicalities. beast wars never qualifies what the great war was, we just assume it was season 1&2, but the show itself never qualifies it because that line in the pilot was supposed to be a throw away and not specifically refer to g1.

    also, while marvel g1 did have micromasters, sunbow didnt so that tech would have had to be developed extremely fast and lead to a planet wide downsizing in a matter of years. and you say that the takara series dont play into into beast wars, but theres nothing that really contradicts it either. sure cybertron gets destroyed in headmasters, but it gets restored post zone, complete with vector sigma and everything. plus the takara trilogy are the only shows that actually show the micromasters. at least this is the way i look at it :) 

    mind wiping is possible, but blackarachnia knew more because she had access to the information, just like dinobot, who had it from studying military history
     
  11. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's Zvil!"

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Posts:
    15,471
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    Likes:
    +15,280
    Considering she had just been "born" as a protoform (as Rhinox described, IIRC), though, when would she have the time to study such things? If it was all readily available and could be downloaded ala The Matrix brain plugs or something ("whoa, I know karate!"), why didn't EVERYBODY do that. If anything, that leads me to think some protoforms are actually older Transformers that have been reprogrammed for exploration (but there may have been some nefarious motives, as well).
     
  12. Fenrys

    Fenrys Formerly Tigatron2002

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    44,765
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Location:
    Virginia, United States
    Likes:
    +85,199
    Ebay:
    thats possible, certain additions to bw (dawn of futures past, dawn of the predacus etc) have established some protoforms as having prior lives. i always just saw it as information that was readily available on the predacon ship, like a historical archive. especially considering dinobot was a student of history it is likely that he at least had records and such onboard the ship for light reading or something along those lines. as for why not have everyone do that, well think about humans, we have so much information available to us, but not everyone is interested in studying it
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Prime of Shadows

    Prime of Shadows Quick as Lightning

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Posts:
    3,281
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Houston, USA
    Likes:
    +9,762
    YouTube (Old):
    @WishfulThinking you’re right, I had forgotten the Maximal Council had sealed the war records. As I recall, the Great War was actually the 3rd war, no? Perhaps the Maximals were so terrified of another war that they resorted to extreme measures to prevent it. Megatron (the original) was inspired by legends of bots in the past I believe. So the Council sealed the records so nobody could be “inspired” again. A lot of these bots in Beast Wars seem to be new construction. There do appear to be a lot of moral grey area activities in this 300 year interim.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's Zvil!"

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Posts:
    15,471
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    Likes:
    +15,280
    Sure, but studying takes time for humans. I'd think downloading historical records into a cyber brain would take much less time. Megatron knew quite a bit...but a lot of his information seemed to come from the disk.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. CyberstormSM

    CyberstormSM Turbo-Revvin' Young Punk

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Posts:
    4,051
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +11,066
    I like to think the 300 years to be more along the lines of 300 vorns, which puts us closer to 25,000 years.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  16. Buzzclaw

    Buzzclaw Combatibot

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2014
    Posts:
    264
    Trophy Points:
    97
    Likes:
    +92
    Ebay:
    Cartoon timelines have always been screwy (remember the Constructicons building Megatron on Cybertron then being built on Earth by Megatron?) but there is an implied massacre or forced upgrade/mindwipe implied by the Maximal mythologizing of Ravage.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's Zvil!"

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Posts:
    15,471
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    Likes:
    +15,280
    I tend to think it was probably the latter. In Beast Machines, we see I believe we see several dead bodies of certain Autobots such as Bluestreak in a flashback...and Megatron was apparently hoovering up Autobots and Decepticons along with Maximal and Predacon sparks.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Prime of Shadows

    Prime of Shadows Quick as Lightning

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Posts:
    3,281
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Houston, USA
    Likes:
    +9,762
    YouTube (Old):
    Sideswipe too.
     
  19. Fenrys

    Fenrys Formerly Tigatron2002

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    44,765
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Location:
    Virginia, United States
    Likes:
    +85,199
    Ebay:
    If you use the reused character models in beast machines as gospel wouldn’t that make nightscream rumble/frenzy? I always interpreted those as generics since they didn’t have faction logos
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Posts:
    90,819
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    462
    Location:
    agile house
    Likes:
    +67,944
    Instagram:
    The same reason we mock technology that isn't even a decade old as being woefully outdated.

    Except it was 300 years, not vorns.

    They actually did have faction logos, Autobot and Decepticon logos, but they were still generics.