I mean, it’s be good to get consistently good transformers comics. Too bad the issue right now is that it’s IDW....

 

Locke & Key comes to mind. It's getting a Netflix adaptation as well. It also writer Joe Hill, son of Stephen King, as the co-creator of the series.

 

Yeah, IDW doesn't just publish TF comics, much to the chagrin of some of you. It also drives me absolutely spare when someone says IDW (as if IDW is some huge, amorphous entity rampaging around) did something to a Transformers comic or "the artists" did something wrong or, worse yet, "the writers."

"IDW" isn't trying to push an agenda down your throat. The people that work on Transformers comics at IDW work with Hasbro reps to lay out a direction and then get crackin' (as presumably Hasbro has neither the time nor inclination to examine every single thing under a microscope). I'm sure the level of Hasbro's participation has waxed and waned over the years (from almost no oversight other than "use the new toys" back in the Marvel days to dedicated reps who presumably actually look at the work today).

I'm not trying to be a dick, but perhaps I'll be one for a sec...

Debate is much more fun when you have a better grasp of the facts. Instead of being mad at a nebulous, evil and faceless "IDW," maybe take the time to figure out who the creative team is. The editor. The editor in chief. Maybe learn what it is that IDW does (and why the guy that crops up every six months to say they've lost the license or are bankrupt is talking out of ass). Maybe take a look and see what those creative talents and editors have their finger prints on. You may learn that the artist isn't to your liking on one book, and maybe draws something else you like. Maybe you don't like books that tend to be spearheaded by, let's name a name and say Denton Tipton*, etc.

When you come to a debate armed with facts, you look better, your opinions carry more weight and it's just more fun!


Anyway.




*fun fact; I called him a clown on the old IDW Board to his "face" because he was a dickhead

Absolutely, but conversely... sometimes you love a team so much that you give up when a new owner or general manager comes on board and makes decisions you can't agree with.

 

Counterpoint: when @ZeroiaSD and others say "If you don't like it, don't read it", I think they mean more along the lines of "If you hate it so much that you desperately want it to fail, and believe that everyone who differs on that point is a zealot, and you already don't really read it so much as flip through looking for things that offend you, then maybe don't read it".

I think I would suggest the same to anyone who supports a sports team and turns up at the stands every week with a loudspeaker to tell the whole team, the managers and the other fans that they suck. It's a case of: sorry you're frustrated, but there's got to be a line somewhere.

 

That's something different entirely. "It's not okay to be an insufferable, stubborn, blindly arguing pain in the ass for no substantive reason" has very little to do with fandoms and more to do with opinions on how to live your life. It's generally not okay to be a screeching crazy person regardless of your position. I had a terrible temper in the past, so I suppose I can speak from experience that nothing good comes from being an angry jackass.

Let's look at the quote:

"Like a prior poster said, if you don't like it, don't read it- and I'll add on top, "and don't get so mad other people like it/don't act like them enjoying it and talking about liking it is imposing on you rather than vice versa." (Emphasis added)

That latter portion after the "and" covers your position AND agrees with my point AND my general concurrence with @ZeroiaSD. However, it also shows that he was referring to "don't like it, don't read it" as a stand-alone statement that would benefit some addition.

Again - I wholly agree that if you don't like something, you shouldn't make it a mission in life to be an insufferable pain about it. These are god damn magical robots. If this (or a sports team or whatever other form of entertainment does it for you) is something that elicits anger, then that's just unpleasant for everyone.

However, cracking off the statement that you should just "not read it" if you don't like it, despite the subject matter of "it" having been your thing for 25 - 35 years is definitely a reasonable basis to be grumpy, and people should be able to look at it and review it and voice their opinions. If you ask me, attempting to shut down opinions we don't agree with using glib labels in an attempt to sound pithy or witty - regardless of whatever side you happen to be on - is how we end up in terrible pissing matches to begin with.

 

@ProtectronPrime said it way better than I could've.

 

This chap gets it. You're a very wise man. Too bad people can't handle what you are saying and trying to twist your words into something entirely different.

Focksbot's interpretation was laughable and ZeroiaSD is an elitist chap on an IDW crusade. It saddens me that they are unable to deal with fair and constructive criticism against IDWs shitty TF-comics. I'm glad ProtectronPrime shot both of them down, the former for his laughable claim and the latter for being an elitist hypocrite.

EDIT:

P.S. I love you all.

Hah! Good question.

 

I put it to you that this is simply imprecision in language, and that the 'and' is more of an explanatory note than an additional statement. The evidence is the user's past form. Have they - has anyone on this forum - consistently objected to people reporting negative impressions of the books?

I think both of us have been around long enough to know that critical discussion is one of the main draws of this forum, and very few users baulk or bristle at threads where negative opinions are reasonably articulated. The "don't like it, don't read it" formulation is only, in practice, rolled out in reaction to posts and threads that have crossed the line into foot-stamping crusader territory.

 

Shooting down? That's not really me, and it wholly misconstrues my position on almost any given fan subject. We're here to discuss things, not one up one another and show off how smart we are. I'd make no friends that way and I'm uninterested in making people dislike me.

I offer a moderate, different viewpoint. Specifically, I have been a very stubborn, angry fan that had very precise ideas of what Transformers should or shouldn't be and I feel like I understand the mindset that goes along with it moreso than people that are moderate but coming from a different position. I don't think I'm that way anymore, and I'm far more accepting and interested in seeing what others bring to the table because I think it's better to see what new things appear, even if they're not always for me, because over time it may make things better or more interesting.

I respect both @ZeroiaSD and @Focksbot a lot and I consider them to be decent, intelligent folks capable of having friendly discussions despite not agreeing with me. Speaking of which:

I'll give you that context is important, especially when discussing something with someone long term. I also agree that the reaction of "don't like it, don't read it" is not necessarily an unwarranted response to someone being a complete pain about their position/ideas. There's an element of familiarity. However, I do think that this can morph over time into a sort of knee jerk reaction to positions we don't necessarily want to hear. As a result, sometimes we run the risk of blasting newer or unfamiliar individuals with mantras that the rest of the fandom have either absorbed or rejected. For example, I'll point out that I've been attacked and given a version of "don't like, don't read" for engaging in criticism of the books regardless of how well or poorly I articulated them - and there are definitely things I LIKED about the books even if I disliked them as a whole.

We can agree that there's really no reason to be a jerk about stuff. We can also agree that there's a logical progression to becoming a little less willing to deal with people that we perceive are being a jerk about stuff. The point I'm trying to make is that sometimes the perception can be made that someone is being a jerk about something - even if they're not trying to be one and are simply sick of a whole other party behaving poorly.

Yes, if someone is behaving like an insufferable jackass, a certain response can be viewed as warranted, even if it's not necessarily "right" or "acceptable". Like @GoLion, I find myself wanting to err on the side of caution these days, lest I accidentally give someone a hard time because I THINK they're saying one thing when they mean another.

 

I just don't need anymore people hating me for irrational reasons.

 

Me either. Not when there are so many fun, legitimate reasons to not like me.

 

You've proven my point.

The story being told in the latter half of MTMTE and LL was not something a big portion of the fandom wanted. Towards the end of LL the books were only selling AROUND 6,000 copies. The type of story being told alienated readers.

Now, this new book (which is a MUCH more traditional story) is selling around 10K monthly. That missing audience came back... Why? People can write essays with 10 cent words to try to justify their bad argument, but it's pretty obvious what was going on.

IDW corrected course and the numbers went back up.

Can you provide ANY evidence where someone said any of that?

I've skimmed every thread concerning the new comic and I can't see anyone saying: You've been tricked into liking the new book.

Who's been using their magical brain washing powers? I thought we all agreed not to do that anymore.

lmao. ​

The problem is those types ALWAYS apply that flawed logic to EVERYONE that has a critical eye aimed at the book. To take it a step further, they usually throw around a lot of underhanded ad homs and then cry foul when people rightfully call them out on their nonsense.

Were there people just being haters? Sure. Most of the people, however, were rightfully upset with the book and were just being critical of it. Only for said book's defenders to just call them haters and other equally idiotic ideologically slanted nonsense instead of listening to the criticisms.

Again. Lost light's numbers reflected the fact that the audience was leaving in droves.

This new book's numbers are holding pretty steady in comparison. So it's obvious it wasn't just a "general decline" as much as it was people were dissatisfied with the type of story was being told during the latter half of MTMTE and Lost Light.

You seem alright to me. Granted, I don't know you that well.  


And just to say something real quick. I'm going to remove myself from this conversation. I typically get along with the majority of the people in here. Even when they are shooting a few arrows my way. They don't result to nonsense or insults to justify their arguments. The comic forum has been downright pleasant recently. I would rather not see it turn back into a pissing contest because some around here can't deal with others having an opinion that doesn't align with their own. ​

 

Entirely fair point. Happens all the time in exchanges on all kinds of topics outside of this forum too.

I just think, as a case in point, the first page of this thread goes downhill pretty quickly into "people being jerks" territory. Accusations of nepotism, the readership 'tricking themselves' into liking it, the entire run of comics as a never ending stream of seagull shit, the publishers aren't interested in making money etc etc.

I think you need to update your intel, GoLion. Sales of the new book are plummeting as we come to the end of the year. Which means your argument here - that essentially the fanbase as a whole concurs with your personal judgement - isn't very well supported.

Of course, I would say that the current book is struggling to come across as a Transformers book, rather than a typical 2000AD strip, so maybe we're both right. I think there are probably a lot of other factors in the mix though.

Also:

They're referring to the fourth post on this thread.

 

Eh, you and GoLion are good. Why would anyone dislike you?

I think that you and ProtectronPrime are one of the few who here who have come up with sober and nuanced takes. The arguments you present are well-thought out and substantiated with facts and rational thinking. It is a shame that I can't say the same for many posters here, but I shan't name names.

I do agree with you that people have a nasty habit off shooting arrows your way. Usually, most people are kind and friendly, but they tend to get nasty when it's about a topic they're passionate about. If you want to remove yourself, that is fine, since you are free to do just that. However, I think the thread would benefit a lot from your thoughts and I fear that the quality will worsen if you leave.

 

… Hm. I concede. Thanks for clearing things up for me.

 

Fun quirky stories about good interesting characters, with dark tragic moments alienate readers?

The new book has a forgettable storyline and equally forgettable characters. It's not grasping me at all. Both the storyline and characters are as generic as generic can be. It just isn't fun or has any interesting characters.

 

Were you feeling such aggressively strong withdrawal symptoms from slating the new IDW that you needed to bump this thread after five months to criticize it?

 

Yes. Just like you were feeling such aggressively strong symptoms to respond to my post.

Tell me how my post personally effected you. Some guy posted in a thread from five months ago to continue a discussion about a current ongoing comic book, and that somehow for reasons I cannot comphrend was hugely significant enough to trigger you? Because you are triggered.

Truthfully, I happened to miss this thread before until just now. There's no other comic discussion going on due to the lack of new comics, but I still want to talk about the current ongoing comic book in the comic book forum.

 

I think, as someone not personally "effected" (it's "affected, btw) by this post, I think what @Superhans was trying to say was that by general message board etiquette your post - after 5 months of thread inactivity - comes across as weird and awkward.

 

Some of the characters are forgettable -- Optimus, for one -- but the same could be said about 90% or more of the characters in Lost Light who were completely ignored in favor of like 10 core characters, half of whom were Roberts' OCs. I enjoyed that book all the way to the end but I also don't think your criticism is fair, when viewed in that light. Characters in the new continuity that I find myself wanting to see more of include the Constructicons (best characterization ever so far... the last issue of their Generations could have been better but the first 3 books still gave them WAY more character than ever before), Cyclonus (HELL YEAH), Nautica, Wheeljack from the brief glimpses we've gotten of him, the Insecticons, Shockwave is a very interesting character this go-round (is he an anarchist? Is he a scientist? What's his angle? He's NOT emotionless), and arguably most of all... MEGATRON! THIS Megatron makes sense as a fallen hero. I see how he was trying to do the right thing but dealing with a bunch of crazies pulled him into a bunch of crap he never intended to happen, so he basically felt he had to jump off the slippery slope... it's a more realistic take on villainy than even his portrayal in IDW1 (which is tragic in a different way).

As for storyline though, at this point I'm pretty engrossed. The issue focusing on Megatron's past and his encounter with (a version of) Exarchon was great. I can't wait to learn more about this world, its history, and its secrets. I've misssed the comics almost as much as the NBA.

Easy... no IDW TF comics have been published in months. That means nothing new came out to re-stimulate your ire. So it comes across as if you were just sitting there alone thinking about how much you hate these comics. Some people will always think it's weird that people just ruminate on the shit they hate as opposed to contemplating what they like. I see where you're coming from though... the thread is new to you, and you do read the comics, so why not?