I think the argument is that since something is already targeted to a limited audience (a toy comic targeted at it's older fanbase), the less market savvy thing to do is to narrow the scope even further to the point of nonexistence and/or not target the tastes of that demographic, whatever those tastes might be. Again, this is a nostalgia-driven brand. The OG basis of the franchise is robot fighting and this is theoretically what would sell. If the comics are seen as a profit maker, then this is likely what the comic should be about notwithstanding actual quality or craftsmanship.

However, consider the concept that the comics are viewed more as a source of cheap advertisement as opposed to a moneymaking venture for HasTak. Then you could argue that it doesn't matter what the comic does. All that matters to HasTak is that the brand is promulgated and that the audience is reminded of the brand's existence.

My father used to be an ad man in a former life and we'd talk a lot about how advertising works. It was always his position that in reality the overall quality of an ad isn't really important - it's whether or not you remember the product it's selling. Whether or not you buy the theory is up to you. However, if you take that theory to its logical conclusion it's honestly not a failure to HasTak even if IDW only sells a handful of books or if the books are objectively crappy, sales notwithstanding.

Even if everyone hates the context of the books, people are talking about Transformers. They're waiting for the allegedly crappy book to be over because the next one is theoretically better. Fans angry at the current wave of books will vent about it, causing curious others to possibly checking it out and/or reminding them that hey, Transformers is still a thing and maybe they should look at the toys again or perhaps watch the current show since the books are a disaster.

So at best, for Hastak, the book is awesome and it turns a profit. At worst, it's a sunk advertising cost that doesn't cost them much at all. As it's been pointed out, the market is so niche that even if the content of the book could arguably hurt the brand... so what? Only a few thousand copies are going out and HasTak can likely roll in and shut the book down at its leisure.

What IDW gets out of such an arrangement could also have only limited connections with actual money and more to do with reputation. IDW holding onto a big toymaker license, even if they do poorly with it, shows its investors and other potential licensors that they can play with the big boys. Like HasTak, being able to creatively develop a legacy license like Transformers is more of a showcase to other potential clients moreso than anything else.

IDW can certainly seek to attract critical acclaim and discuss the angry fans after the fact. After all, there's irrationality on both sides and it's a small scale book compared to other IPs they own/develop. Get critical exposure and acclaim and write off the vocally upset as a bunch of crackpots. It's one of the reasons you might want to target a demographic that is loud as opposed to a wider demographic that silently buys.

Ultimately it's just a resource management game where people shuffle cards from one hand to the next, where profits are interchangeable with exposure.

 

huh great points there. So basically IDW gets to say “we handle famous brands like Transformers” and Hasbro gets free advertising?

 

That's how I see it, yeah. Good way of summarizing it.

 

I kinda just want to throw my hat in the ring since I just found this thread. Context, I was only able to get to issue #7 of IDW2 and have read IDW1 off and on.

I feel like the main problem with IDW2 that it is way too melodramatic and it takes itself a bit too seriously. I feel IDW1 didn't have to focus on world-building as the world kinda just built itself. Along with the story setting the tone and letting the characters playing off the tone and story while IDW2 has made everyone "deep" but everyone just comes off moody. Also, IDW2 hasn't made there characters very interesting which is impossible to say in IDW1, in that, every bot in that book was an individual in that.

I partly blame IDW2 for my loss of interest in comics, mainly because the Hal Jordan Green Lantern and the Ending IDW1 books kept me going to the shop every week. With it not changing my mind #7 issues in and DC books going the route of Marvel in quality, I just don't bother anymore with comics.

Edit:
Adding more, this is just a rant I've had for a while.

I hate IDW2 using generic robots to fill backgrounds. Transformers has enough design to fill a plant shot. IDW1 Killed at this, randomly dropping characters in places. G2 characters in the background, Old UT designs as either new characters of just panel fillers. I wish the would go back to this. (I know IDW1 wasn't perfect at it but better than IDW2)

 

I think you make some good points, but it's been discussed that IDW2 is possibly a response to the backlash to the latter half of IDW1's extremely dramatic take on the book. For example, all Optimus Prime did throughout his book's run was to grump about, wallow in self pity, and effectively resolved all of IDW's Hasbroverse with a hug. Similarly, MTMTE/LL ended with the most bombastically 80's ending that I'm surprised nobody did a freeze frame high-five jump to the tune of "Don't You Forget About Me". IDW1, like it or not, was the purest essence of melodrama, with exaggerated emotions and characters often to the point of making nonsensical, often out of the blue decisions.

Your impression that IDW2 is "melodramatic" actually runs contrariwise to most of the posters in the comics threads. In fact, I'd say most of us find IDW2 to be extremely boring because there's no drama to be had. People wander in and out. People die. Stuff happens and zero people care because there's no emotional investment in the characters due to the writing and art. There's no melodrama when nobody cares. IDW2 is trying to be intensely dramatic with a nod to real-world political dramas. Lots of walking and talking, which is fine. However, TV shows of this genre need great actors to carry it so they can portray the subtle nuance of the dialogue and character's emotional state. Similarly, in order to have a comic that does this, you need an artist who specializes in conveying emotion in their art. IDW2 does not have this. That's the lethal failing in this book to me. I see words, I see characters, but there's no connection between what's said and what the character does. All the "moody" feelings come from art direction.

In my opinion, the art is ruining the story. The story is serviceable - nothing stunning, but it's not horrible either. It's getting the job done in the most pedestrian way it possibly can. While perhaps not the shot in the arm we were all hoping for, perhaps this is what Transformers needed. A break from all the craziness of IDW1 sort of like a palate cleanser for the next insane thing. It's also a good opportunity to solidify the better concepts and ideas from IDW1 into the generalized canon we all follow with Transformers. After all, stuff like sparks and t-cogs and "the senate" are all concepts that got normalized over time, arising in other media both good and bad.

As for IDW2 filling it's background with generics, this is likely the result of Hasbro seizing more creative control over this iteration. IDW1 threw their characters around willy nilly. Artists/writers were stepping on each other toes constantly because x person used a character y wanted to use. Characters were dying left and right. The use of generics in IDW2 indicates more control, and more care invested in how each individual character's likeness is used. In addition, Hasbro seems to have this underlying mandate that each character follow the most recent character model from the Generations toyline. There may be some kind of restriction that keeps the artists from major crowd filler characters given that there's no immediate model reference. In other words, it might not be an IDW thing, but a Hasbro thing.

 

@ProtectronPrime So what you're basically saying is that by trying to address what people didn't like about IDW1 for IDW2 they wound up going too far with it by making entirely different problems people aren't liking. That does feel like the case since IDW2 does feel more corporate driven in some aspects from what I've seen.

 

Yea, I had a poor choice of words to describe how I feel as you pretty much stated what I thought. In hidesight, the drama of OP and LL is much better than this and I didn't really like those books.

Yes, yes, yes! The story shouldn't have made me not care when anything happened. I laughed out loud when Rubble died because he was so underdeveloped and they tried to do an emotional moment.

That is the one good aspect of IDW2, but we need some craziness soon, I genuinely think the only way we'll get a good off the wall Transformers story is either you bring in some of the old IDW 1 blood just to set a new base line.

You have a good point on character preservation, This reminded me of the whole Quick switch debacle.

I'm hoping to go pick up some issues of galaxies as the one off (or 2 or 3) nature allows shorter quicker stories. I hope they can do some dreamwave style stuff and give stories to some obscure bots like Preditors, Powermasters, etc.

 

That's probably part of it. I think they're going for a more cohesive, conservative approach, which is clearly not what IDW1 fans like. It's also not what Furman-type fans seem to like either (i.e. no big action). So you're left with this sort of tepid worldbuilding story which is frankly not moistening anyone's underoos, so to speak.

 

Your posts so far have been illuminating and I would go so far to say that you have been able to discern some of IDW2's major issues. In your view, do you think that they will keep doing what they've been doing so far, as long as their sales are "acceptable" or will they finally realize, when compared to other comics, that what they are producing is subpar at best?

Now, I don't really read comics, but from what I've gathered, DC & Marvel comics do really well. Why wouldn't TF-comics be able to do the same? TF-comics aren't niche, when you consider the fact that time and time again they've made it to the big screen (being blockbuster movies to boot). However, with comic- writers & artists like these.....

Be careful. Some people tend to identify a wee bit too much with that niche market. In other words, if you have any constructive criticism of certain aspects of the TF-comics, then some people will equate this you attacking them personally.

How do you think they should utilize that so called talent? Why have they been unable to do so?

 

What are they gonna do? Buy the comics?

 

Finally got a chance to comment on this thread.

Where to start.? Has the original poster access to a crystal ball or can see the future because there is no real basis for this thread other then to cause rows.

The main book is getting good and transformers galaxies is a great read. So no tf comics wont be awful. You are entitled to your opinion but im enjoying the new continuity.

 

Depending on the writer...
Just list every Roberts cliche.

 

I've been off the forum for, well, quite a few months. In that period I've felt the comics have built on themselves from a slow start and has become a much more enjoyable comic. The slow burn approach has moved up the fuse and is starting to go off, and it benefits from the payoff.

I feel the board culture here has gotten into some self-feeding negativity loops. There's some pretty laughable arguments (people don't really like it, they're just being 'tricked into thinking they're getting a better product than they are.' An argument that doesn't get how liking things work), and a lot of complaining that those who do like it are fanatics and such. These aren't productive or criticism- they're just trying to push around people who don't agree.


Also the 'wokeness' argument is especially laughable, since the high-points of IDW1 are often linked to when they started putting in gay relationships and the like. IDW2 hasn't had as much focus on it even, there's been no romance issues so far for those who haven't noticed, it's been incidental representation rather than central plot like Chromedome and Rewind or such. Plus analysis of the outside world has shown that 'get woke, go broke,' is way more solid grapes than not- while it certainly doesn't guarantee success (it's just a separate axis), appealing to more audiences is, y'know, better, and does help build loyal audiences in a fair number of cases. The complaints seem to be projected insecurities, basically, with no basis in reality.


So, short version? IDW2 has improved over time, and some people just really don't like people liking what they don't like. Like a prior poster said, if you don't like it, don't read it- and I'll add on top, "and don't get so mad other people like it/don't act like them enjoying it and talking about liking it is imposing on you rather than vice versa."

 

First: I know it's a typo, but "Solid Grape" sounds like some kind of awful Hi-C flavor, or a Hideo Kojima character that hit the cutting room floor.

Second: I agree with you, pretty much on every general point.

I think the problem, however, is that the statement "if you don't like it, don't read it" is a very hard pill to swallow. Regardless of whether the statement is true or not, it's a very cavalier, flip way of summing up the issue.

This is an older fandom. It's old fanbase is rooted in the 80's. This was a time period so fraught with issues regarding childhood development and experimentation with branding that legislation had to be passed that eventually killed the "30 minute commercial" cartoon. Unlike any other generation, "80's kids" have an extremely commercialized nostalgia. I'm one of those kids and can attest that up until recently, my purchase of TFs was almost an impulse rather than a conscious decision.

What that means is that a lot of people's concepts of how Transformers are supposed to be can sometimes be deeply ingrained in people's psyche, depending on a variety of factors. Telling people that something they've had (or believe they've had) for most of their life that it's no longer for them is /hard/ on that previous audience. It's upsetting and frustrating. While the respite that some individuals turn to in order to cope for this loss can be distasteful to say the least, I find it hard to not conceptualize why people get so angry.

I suppose it could be argued that Transformers comics haven't been produced for a certain segment of people for quite some time (IDW1 was a 10 year affair). This is where things get a little fuzzy. Nostalgia allows us to bypass any kind of rationalization. In addition, 10 years is only a third of the life of the franchise. This kind of murky transition period is going to breed discontent. The franchise has clearly been going through some growing pains since Bay walked in nearly 12 years ago.

Again, I'm super ambivalent to the point of effectively not actively caring (the academic discussion interests me more than anything else). That said, it needs to be recognized going forward that things do change and people need to recognize that as time passes, stuff will evolve to fit the needs and desires of the time... or not, resulting in it dying off. Even venerable, long lasting stories like Lord of the Rings now have dwarf tossing jokes in them thanks to the movies. Nothing ever stays the same and people need to be mindful that yes, eventually whatever it is you love now will not "be for you" likely in a few decades at the very least.

That said, you can't expect everyone to like it, nor is it necessarily completely fair to sit there and hand wave complaints from people that were basically turned into Manchurian Candidates for the franchise as it was 35 years ago. "This isn't for you anymore" is a hard, unpleasant, and even possibly not fair statement to make to someone that's been enjoying/believing something a certain way for over a quarter century even if it's true AND warranted. Just food for thought.

 

Eh, I just want idw to shut down already.

 

Name a IDW book besides Transformers and TMNT, that's actually good.
Do they have decent original comics? Cause Transformers is their most profitable license.
Come on, I dare ya.

 

Ugh, I wish they'd release the Marvel UK Vol. 6. This is one of IDW's biggest sins....neglecting their Marvel reprints...

And regarding current IDW....

I liked it when first came out till All Hail Megatron.

I don't know when IDW2 began, but I've read every single non-Bayverse IDW comics, and I'm totally in the "Meh" category.

I don't hate or enjoy any of it. Not sure if that apathy is better or worse for the current state.

 

Their run on Ghostbusters and Godzilla comes to mind.

 

Hmmmm... I heard they were good. But how about an original production, not based on an existing property?

 

But Transformers is a fandom though - most of us who post on these boards are ardent fans, rather than casuals.

I liken it to supporting a sports team. Even when your team are having a bad year (or years), the hardcore fans still show up to each game, and complain to each other in the bar afterwards about how the coach should be sacked or that the star player isn’t pulling their weight.

You try telling those fans, “hey, your team sucks? You don’t like the way they play at the moment? Why not just give up and support someone else?” You probably won’t get a good reaction!

Fan is short for ‘fanatic’ - in other words we are mad and unreasonable when it comes to our favourite things.

People here don’t want Transformers comics to be bad; no one here is gleeful when describing their disappointment with the current series. The disappointment comes from a love for the brand, a desire to see it in better hands, to see it compete for the play-offs again. We gripe because we care.

We keep buying the next issue in the naive hope that it turns a corner, that this is the game that can end the losing streak.