Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by Super_Megatron, Jan 9, 2007.
that looks completely craptastic... way to go Bay and Murphy!
I do agree with you, but... The new designs do match the mythos, but they do not match what we all know as Transformers. And I think that is what the major complaint is. Growing up in the 80's and recognizing Optimus Prime and the other Autobots as the "heroes of my childhood" and Megatron and the Decepticons as the "Villians." That is, physically, who I would have liked to have seen in this live action movie. At first sight, I don't identify with these new Transformers. There were many factors in the 80's that made Transformers such a huge success and the appearance, I believe, was one of them. And to change that I don't think was neccessary, nor a good idea. I don't mind change, but these new robots don't look like Transformers. For example, I've shown a lot of my friends the new leaked designs and had to tell them the pictures were of Transformers, because they don't look like what everyone knows as Transformers.
Anyway, this is just my opinion. I'm not condeming the movie for the change. I think the best thing they did was get Peter Cullen and hopefully Welker to do the voices. Atleast they will sound like the originals. I hope.
I'm really looking forward to seeing it. But I'm not as excited as I could be.
Gotta agree with Cory on this one...
to quote jerry seinfeld
"that's a shame"
Okay, I know I've been pushing the "shut-up-and-wait-and-see" line lately, but I do have to make one point in regards to the complaint of a lack of visible alt-mode parts.
This Megatron (yes, he is a Megatron) has no Earth mode that we know of which means he's not trying in imitate anything (a great take on Big Meg's personality if you ask me). He is, in every sense, a 'pure' Cybertronian, untainted buy outside influences.
Why then, would a natural Cybertronian (a species who is defined almost entirely by their ability to transform) have large chunks of their alt mode hanging off them?
Megatron's body is not compromised by having to imitate alien technology (remember, to him we are the aliens, and not just in physiological sense) and so his alt mode fits perfectly with his robot mode, thus negating the need for kibble. There shouldn't be visible kibble on a Transformer in its natural state because the alt-mode would fit perfectly with its robot mode. Kibble happens because the Transformer's body can't fully accommodate a new alt-mode, thus bizarre proportions and TF's with half a car hanging of their ass.
I would have gone with" Helllloo Newwwmantron"
Nor do any of us really. It'd be impossible to identify with them without seeing the film. Hopefully, the film does it's job at making us love these characters
What about all the Transformers with forms that were from Cybertron that didn't have Earth modes in any of the series? How does his robot form have practical use? How does his alt mode fit in perfectly with his robot mode when it still has odd peices bulging out in odd spots.
I'll answer those questions in order:
1) Good question. Beats me, poor conceptualization? Turning simple toys onto simple animation models isn't going to give you a lot of room to work with. Regardless of what a TF toy turns into, you're going into the same designing problems of getting all the alt-mode parts the fit into more or less humanoid shape while still keeping it within safety regulations and price point, not to mention the limits of the technology at hand. Hence kibble. And since the animation models in the shows are based on the toys, that's what you get.
2) How does any Transformer's robot mode have any pratical use?
3) Aside from some spiky bits here and there, he doesn't have any pieces bulging out. He has a more-or-less perfect humanoid shape. What I mean when I say his alt-mode fits perfectly with his robot mode is that he doesn't have massive kibble like wings hanging off his back forcing him to walk sidewise through a door. Which, although cool looking, would be seriously impractical.
why does it look like hes saying SURPRISE!!!!!!
I thought it was "Boo!"
Well those things hanging off of them are what helped give them personality and also are the hallmarks of Transformers in all of it's incarnations. It also helps to distinguish them from each other.
Well they have functioned more as humans do for many practical uses but if they lack all of the things that make things like that possible than I wouldn't to much of one. The movie Transformers are also sopposed to be the movie makers idea of a realistic Transformers so one would assume that they would have more practical uses for thier forms than one with a loose sense of "reality". The very problem with that is that they are giant transforming robots and suspend reality with thier very idea.
Well I do see pieces bulging out here and there(his one giant nipple for one) and it most certainly doesn't have a perfect humanoid shape. He has areas that are more exaggerated than others making him very misproportioned. I'm not saying any of them needs to be proportioned perfectly I'm just stating they are not. This Megatron has many parts to it that would make it impractical movement wise as well as getting in said door way. I also don't think his skeletal like look is in very keeping with character of a being that dispises organics and most of all humans.
A little series called The War Within came out awhile back and it was all about the pre-earth TF's. The TF's had plenty of kibble and the TF's looked Bad-A**. Bay's bots are out of line with the norm for Transformers, which really makes them different but not in a good way IMO. Imagine if Clark Kent wore a purple superman suit in the Superman movie that came out recently, people would be going nuts and they'd be justified to complain. They've essentially done that to the TF's. They've changed a long-standing standard...the alt kibble.
I also didn't originally imply that Bay should have to use anime magic like the G1 cartoon. I meant that Bay should not be allowed to completely change the franchise's key elements that distinguish Transformers from Go-bots, Bionicles, other transforming robot shows. He made the characters less Iconic in appearance. At this point, I just hope and pray that Hasbro/Film Studio picks a different production crew for the sequel like someone has already said.
I've seen a few people mention switching production companies but who owns the rights to actually make the movies? Have thier been any contacts signed for sequels as well?
In my eyes, Bay's "TFs" look very manmade. Like machines from an assembly line taken to an extreme. Nothing alien about them.
There's nothing about the Diaclone designs that makes them inherently look manmade aside from the cockpits.
Not at all. Granted the actual G1 designs didn't work in many ways, but they don't preclude a completely working execution of the overall design.
I do not believe that kibble is what gives a bot his personality. Masterpiece Prime and Megatron have no kibble, and that definitely doesn't make them any less Transformers. Bay's transformers definitely each are their own individual character without having the burden of half a car welded to their back.
There are certain aspects of Transformers that absolutely must be there for the concept to work. Giant transforming robots is exactly it. Yes, that's a silly outlandish concept by nature, which is why so many of the additional concepts that aren't required to make Transformers work have been stripped away in this story. If you want a realistic reason as to why Transformers would transform on Cybertron, I'd guess because it sure beats walkin'.
Bay's Megatron has the very same proportions as G1 Megatron. Big boot lets. Wide upper torso. Why is that a bad thing?
Apart from some hefty shoulders, I'm not seeing anything there that would get him caught in a doorway; certainly not to the extent of giant-winged Classics Megatron or your run of the mill kibble-tastic Alternator. Bay's Megatron can sit in a throne. 'Nuff said
I believe that's the intent. They work like machinery we're accustomed to, but at a level we can't match. That's what makes them visually believable. That's what will ground them in reality. You can't say they look manmade though, unless you can show me a manmade design that can match their complexity (including transformations). If they didn't use gears, pistons, rotors, etc they would lose their robot aspect. Besides, that's nothing new to Transformers. They were never apparent in lesser expensive designs because their too small to have them, but you start getting into the 20th Anniversary Prime category and he's looted with mechanical stuff like that at every joint.
Um, the faces? The fists?
G1 designs aren't advanced (Hasbro can sell a pretty darn good 1:20 scale one for $20). G1 designs don't appear giant (we've grown accustomed to the 1:20 scale or smaller level of detail/complexity). G1 designs have (mostly) human faces, because they came from Diaclone. And their Transformations aren't impressive enough to title a whole film after. So...like I said, they can't really fill the shoes that their mythos has sewn for them.
I'm well aware of The War Within, thank you. And I'll be the first to say that it was a great comic series with great artwork. That doesn't invalidate my point.
As cool as The War Within designs are, they are essentially G1 designs made to look more "futuristic" and "sci-fi" (for lack of better terms). They still run into all the problems of practicality and freedom of movement that, while looking great in comics and animation, would stick out like a sore thumb in photo realistic CGI.
Any and all attempts I've seen at putting G1 style designs in realistic looking CGI have just looked bad. Not that the quality of the animation was bad or the artist in question lacked talent, not at all. The problem is that they all just wind up looking like giant toys come to life. Fun to look at, but not something I'd want to see in a big budget live action sci-fi action movie. I'd want something with a bit more grit to it.
As for the complaint about the lack of alt kibble, I'm sorry but I really have to disagree with you there. Every design we've seen so far (Megatron notwithstanding) has had plenty of alt-mode kibble on them. Bumblebee, Jazz, and Barricade all have car grill chests. Blackout has his rotor blade cape. Prime has his window chest, grill abs, and leg wheels. Ratchet has a grill and bumper for a chest. Starscream has wings on his shoulders and a cockpit on his chest. They all have wheels, doors and other visible parts on them. The difference is that for the most part the kibble doesn't hang off the body but is incorporated into the frame, rather than looking like a boxy robot with car parts stuck on it.
I'm not saying use G1 designs. I'd like that, but I like most of the TF designs that come out too (except the movie designs). I would love something along the lines of Masterpiece or alt/binaltech looks. These leave the original heads present (with an updated look) and the designs don't horribly impede the movement of the TF while leaving the TF looking like TF's should.
I should also clarify that when I said kibble in previous posts, I wasn't refering strictly to pieces hanging off, I meant it in the general sense of seeing car/vehicle parts clearly present on the TF. TF's have always been more or less shell-formers. Bay's bots don't even have enough of a shell on the outside to cover the alt mode, so that means the rest of the shell either tucks away inside of the bot, or folds in mysterious ways. Either of those seem just as unrealistic as anime magic transformations, they will just look more real b/c they are rendered in high quality CG. I can make out a few pieces, but the TF look is just lacking and comes across as generic or as non-TF. I'm not even saying the majority of the designs suck, b/c they don't. They just aren't good TF's, they would make great generic robot movie robots, but they just don't pass as TF's (except maybe Blackout b/c he looked like a TF in bot mode w/ lots of alt kibble. All the TF's should have been similary designed).
Sorry about that phrasing on the War Within comment. I didn't mean any offense by it. SPOILER -
Meg's alt mode is a plane/spaceship in the movie, so even his alt mode has some relation to Earthly designs. The bot designers for the movie just made him all skeletal junk-pile looking to make him appear more alien, when I think all it did was make him look less like a Transformer.
Well, what if it's the other way around, and that traditional Transformers don't make for good animation models? What then?
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