FansToys FT-10 Phoenix (Masterpiece Skyfire)

Discussion in 'Transformers 3rd Party Discussion' started by Cyclonus79, Apr 27, 2014.

  1. edgecrusher

    edgecrusher Pepperidge Farm remembers TFW2005 Supporter

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    I don't recall so many people griping over $200 nor so many complaining they missed out on a figure that's had two reissues plus an X version, nor so many willing to stick a non-masterpiece figure on a masterpiece shelf. Community dynamics must be changing over time to more who are slower on the trigger with ordering, unwilling to spend as much as we did, and willing to settle for aesthetic/theme-breaking alternatives.
     
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  2. FireSkyJet

    FireSkyJet Well-Known Member

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    I've been sitting with my popcorn...

    Speaking of aesthetic/theme-breaking alternatives, that's the reason why I wasn't interested in getting one at an inflated price. I'm really looking forward to the Siege release. That being said, I was able to snag one on this re-release and am happy to have it join my MP since there isn't an MP release.
     
  3. Hadlen_Weltall

    Hadlen_Weltall Gunpla and Cow Master

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    My Phoenix X just arrived from BBTS, and so far so good there's nothing wrong with it. box is clean, no creases and I got #0266.. Couple of loose joints but nothing a screwdriver can't fix.

    20190514_120136.jpg

    Still coming to terms with the size..
     
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  4. TigerBlade

    TigerBlade Prepare for extermination

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    The dynamics certainly have changed now you mention it. I remember before the mp explosion ppl using chug stand ins on an mp shelf was common place, now it's hardly needed and only if you aren't willing to pay mark ups.
     
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  5. Bebe13

    Bebe13 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think anyone should complain about mark up on the secondary market. It’s a really hot item, why wouldn’t you want to make a profit off that. But I won’t be buying at anything but a decent price.

    I feel my only hope now is if ShowZ will put it up for PO.
     
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  6. dmarsee

    dmarsee Minibot Action

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    It is very frustrating for those of us who don't have a thing when multiple buyers want something so much that they compete for it (by bidding up the price). :peoples: 
    The good news about price gougers is, that if people don't want the thing for an over-inflated price, then no one will buy it. :ev: 
     
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  7. deaculpa

    deaculpa Seven Star Fist

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    Nah ppl on the sale boards are gouging. Asking 350+.
     
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  8. FireSkyJet

    FireSkyJet Well-Known Member

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    Precisely. My personal philosophy (and to each their own) is that if I'm selling something here, I'd just like to break even or possibly a small profit for the trouble. This is a collector's "family". People have been gracious with me and so I like to return the favor or "pay it forward." If I need to make a sizeable profit in order to help fund other things I want to purchase, I leave that for eBay and is why I don't have my account linked. Never the two shall meet if I can help it. I won't give the time of day for something being sold on the board that is gouged, where I might on eBay, etc. if I want it bad enough.
     
  9. FireSkyJet

    FireSkyJet Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, not cool, at least in my opinion. I think it's better to do that on a sales platform like eBay or Mercari if you feel you need to. It seems like taking advantage of someone else's missed opportunity when it's done on the board. But just my two-cents.

    Or even barter for that matter. That's respectable.
     
  10. Snaku

    Snaku Well-Known Member

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    Ebay:
    Did you mean for this to sound snobby or am I injecting something into your text that isn't there? If I am, then I apologize - I know text isn't always the clearest form of communication.

    I'm a griper - I think all of these things are too damned expensive. MP-01 was arguably nicer than most of the current crop of figures from either Takara or 3Ps. He was approx 12", had quite a bit of die cast (too much really), and lots of little gimmicks with all of the pistons in his elbows, knees, and ankles, the moving mouthplate, light up matrix chamber, working suspension, rubber tires, flip out communicators and so on and he was $60. Adjusted for inflation that would be $80 today. Yet $80 won't get you anything larger than a minibot today. MP-01 was also widely available. If you wanted one, you'd just walk into Walmart and pick him up or order him on Amazon.

    Of course that's not a 100% fair comparison - that was the Hasbro release, while Takara releases are imported from Japan and 3P figures are imported from China so they're obviously going to cost more, but the price difference far exceeds enough to account for importing. Add in the fact that these are fairly limited releases compared to a figure that was distributed to every Walmart (and probably other stores as they didn't have an exclusive deal at the time) and that's going to raise the price some as well. I don't have any numbers for what those factors do to a price, but let's use TE-01 as an example since he's generally available for around $120 (unless you buy him domestically) which is considered a pretty fair price. That would be around $94 in 2004 dollars or 50% more than MP01 cost for a figure 2/3 the size (less than that really - 2/3 the height probably works out to a little over half the overall size). Given all of the other factors (limited release from a small company, import costs) that's still high but actually isn't too terrible. Phoenix at $220 would be $160 in 2004 dollars which... is less than double what TE-01 would have been and he's at least twice as big (not twice as tall but certainly 2x as massive or more) and... Huh, that actually sounds pretty fair. I... I think I just switched sides.

    Still, I will never fault someone for not being willing to spend $200+ on a toy. Those people are more sensible than we are. As for being slower on the trigger, he was available for about a day. Not everybody checks in everyday so it's pretty easy to miss. And not everybody has the disposable income available at a moment's notice. I'm just lucky that he he was released the day before payday and paypal always takes a day or two to hit my bank account (though I might've borrowed from savings for this guy). Not everybody is that lucky. Some people make less more or have more expenses. Or they're smarter about paying their student loans or other debts so they aren't willing to devote so much of their income to toys.

    I guess it depends. If someone buys the figure and then later decides they don't want it anymore and it's no longer in print, a reasonable markup is fair. My problem is that there are people who will buy up figures they don't want/need specifically to sell it for more later. I hate those people - greedy bastards who aren't contributing anything (in fact they're actually making the buying process more difficult) and not doing any work and want to make a huge profit for nothing. I'm also annoyed that people expect you to treat their opened, played with toys exactly the same as one that's in an unopened box. If you opened it, played with it, and displayed it for years, you've already gotten a lot for your money already. Why do you think you should be able to sell it for just as much as one that's still sealed in the box?
     
  11. deaculpa

    deaculpa Seven Star Fist

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    Mp01? Cmon man. I still have mine and credit it for kicking off the TF reignition but beyond that, ....pretty meh compared to today’s offerings.

    But that just, like, my opinion man.
     
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  12. edgecrusher

    edgecrusher Pepperidge Farm remembers TFW2005 Supporter

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    @Snaku Not snobby, kept it observational.

    Very few people buy 3P TFs to just to resell. Most buy to collect and display.

    I used to rant about product pricing so I feel you. All of this stuff is priced high because demand allows for it. Limited quantities, appealing designs. If people stopped buying it, prices would drop to find equilibrium. Risk being that some producers would slow or cease production altogether if they didn't feel the margins were sufficient. Consumers don't have the self-control to band together and boycott pricing like that anymore though.

    So people who really care about prices will find ways to solve for that. They put in the effort and creativity. Some will seek out alternative sources that are cheaper, some will find ways to be useful to a 3P or distributor and in turn get products at cost or comped, some will create additional sources of income to use for the hobby, etc.

    In general, I agree about people who resell on facebook groups and ask msrp or higher for their well-played-with used figures with missing parts and a busted box. "Like new FT Bombshell, 100% complete except the left arm, smoke-free home, missing collector card. $500 No negotiating." Yeah those clowns raise my bloodpressure too.
    On the other hand though, some of us treat our products like museum pieces from the moment of purchase until it is in the mail on the way to its new owner. In that case, so long as we offer a fair price (below ebay or the chumps on facebook groups), I wouldn't consider that to be the same thing.
     
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  13. dmarsee

    dmarsee Minibot Action

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    :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol 

    I don't think anyone here is "faulting someone for not being willing to spend $200+ on a toy." Feel free to not buy whatever you don't think is worth the asking price. More power to you.

    I think the "faulting" here is when folks gripe about price, as if they somehow deserve a small-run, highly specialized, pseudo-IP-infringing collector's item for half the price of what the market is willing to pay for it.

    It's one thing to choose to not buy a thing. It's another thing to act entitled to something that everyone here wants just as much as you do.

    If you want MP-01's mass-market prices, you need to get 3P figures to be manufactured at 50x the current volume, and somehow get them distributed in mass-market stores like Walmart (without incurring Has/Tak's wrath, good luck) so that the economies of scale can get you into MP-01 price territory. Until that happens, you're gonna be stuck with small print runs, high prices, and the supply/demand curve that comes with it. That's just the game being played. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    If you don't like that, that's fine. Feel free to enjoy Walmart toys like most of the rest of collectors. But trying to shame others into not playing the game you don't like to play (because we're not "sensible" enough or whatever) seems pretty ineffective at changing the situation.
     
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  14. divinecomedy

    divinecomedy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I keep my stuff super pristine i.e. most of the time, I use my figures for display only, so most of them are as good as new.
     
  15. VelsR

    VelsR Ancient of War

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    Any price seems reasonable until you are in the know about the pricing in China.
     
  16. Maglite

    Maglite Well-Known Member

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    I think it was a normal preorder where it was open until around time of release. I could be wrong. Historically, I usually don't preorder something the second it goes live. I was looking forward to FT-10 a lot, but I'm sure I sat on my hands for at least a few days before I locked one in.

    I don't disagree with your post, but I found the Walmart toys thing amusing. I spent $1000 on 5 MP Dinobots, have MP44 preordered, but I'm having a hard time trying to justify spending $50 on Siege Shockwave. Priorities are different for everyone. Anyway, like you said, nobody should feel pressured or shamed for spending/saving their money how they choose.
     
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  17. dmarsee

    dmarsee Minibot Action

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    Price Anchoring ( Anchoring - Wikipedia ) is real, isn't it? I suffer from it, too.
     
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  18. TigerBlade

    TigerBlade Prepare for extermination

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    That's just supply and demand and not strictly just a 3p Transformer thing. Any collectible that isn't available anymore, is highly sort after, still complete and boxed always pulls in a higher price. MOTUC scene was fucking ridiculous at one point for trying to hunt stuff down and some figures still go for utterly ridiculous prices.

    If you're late to the game you have to dig deep to play the game. If you can't or won't then so be it. No one has to own any of this shit really.
     
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  19. hardreturn

    hardreturn Ian Reid

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    What other people want to buy and sell for is none of my business. You can decide if the price is acceptable or not. But complaining about it just screaming at a wall.
     
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  20. XXLMagnus

    XXLMagnus King of Kings

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    I try to be open-minded, but sometimes ppl need a ‘Ten Commandments’ style crib sheet - this is it ... follow these principles and you can’t go wrong :) 
     
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