Exposing the Knighthood Theme in TF:AoE

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Hazekiah, Jun 26, 2015.

  1. rodster6

    rodster6 Well-Known Member

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    It paid lip service to those things but didn't go very deep into it as it was too busy trying to make a longer action scene than the last film. It would be interesting if they spend time developing those themes in future.
     
  2. Wolf

    Wolf old school bot

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    Dinobots..... Not knights.
     
  3. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    But that's because G1 Hound isn't that memorable or interesting as AOE Hound or as badass. It's took nothing and made something out of it.

    Grimlock is iconic and well know and already has a stigma attached to him so seeing him stray from the norm is weird or depicted poorly...though it's hypocritical since I love RID Grimlock so much.
     
  4. Hazekiah

    Hazekiah Banned

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    Still lots of interesting discussion in here...so THANKS to everyone who's joined in!

    I've been kinda busy in other threads so I apologize for being someone absent in here lately but, while juggling my other pet topics and trying to get back into Essay Mode, I've been busy writing some of the other threads I'll be posting soon which interlink and bounce ideas back-and-forth with this one.

    So as I bash those out behind-the-scenes I'll be a little too busy to get involved with the several pages of replies in here, but I assure you I'll be going back and addressing everyone's responses more fully when I get the chance!

    In the meantime, I'm going to be adding several more elements of the Knighthood theme into the OP and polishing up the presentation of what's already there. It's really a skeletal-framework and rushjob version of what I'd intended right now. Honestly, after taking TONS of notes in preparation over the past year, I mostly just typed this out extemporaneously at the last minute so I could at least post something special in time for the movie's anniversary, lol.

    So the main post is going to be a lot more fleshed-out AND incorporate several new points soon and I hope everyone keeps dropping it to check it out!

    And OMG the other threads. I really can't wait to share them, I'm SO excited to finally be underway! They all tie together as a fairly thorough, interconnected series of essays examining the film...so if you've enjoyed this first "chapter" so far then you're REALLY in for a treat when it's all finished.

    But for now I just wanted to drop in and address a couple points really quick.

    Much appreciated!

    I hope you like the updates and extensions just as much once I post them too.

    :) 

    Haha, thanks...and duly noted! For the record, I only have a slightly more than casual interest in knighthood, feudalism, chivalry, etc., so I've mostly picked up on the more obscure stuff like the "temenos" out of my interest in Transformers. Believe me, I'm plenty humble about it! Like I said before, I wasn't trying to pat myself on the back so much as I was simply defending my work from casual dismissal. It's a weird position to be in to have sing the praises of one's own work oneself, so was I just acknowledging that with my "back-patting" comment, lol. Fear not!

    Firstly, thanks for all the replies and comments.

    Sorry to gloss over so much of what you've posted for now, but you've given me a lot to respond to here and mostly I'm just pressed for time. I intend to go over several of your points in further detail at a later date, however much of your perspective still seems overly hung up on the same "forest for the trees" dilemma that's already been addressed; rigid definitions, inflexible preferences, and distracting minutiae which seem to be blocking your view of the movie's more general, overall applications of the thematic elements relevant to the Knighthood motif.

    But I'll be expanding on that and addressing many of those issues in later posts and threads, so I hope we'll see a little more eye-to-eye on all that soon enough!

    This point caught my attention in particular, though:

    Again, I have a LOT more to say on this matter...but that's for a separate thread I'm not done composing yet (which will spill back over into this one as well), so we'll return to it in full later, I promise!

    That said, it is pure folly to assert that there is no connection to be made here. Knights and princesses. What's not to get? It fits right in with the dragon and the crown and the kings and the queens and so on sprinkled throughout the story. Hell, when Tessa's abducted by Lockdown and taken aboard the Knightship to be rescued by Cade and Shane, she is LITERALLY put in the role of being their "damsel in distress." They even have to climb up to her prison in the sky to save her, drawing upon a RICH and EXTENSIVE history of medieval knights freeing princesses from prison towers.

    And we're talking about a movie that is positively LADEN with symbolism relevant to knighthood and which JUST SO HAPPENS to dwell HEAVILY upon Tessa's chastity. Saying chastity has no bearing in or connection to a story about knighthood is simply misinformed.

    In fact, the Five Knightly Virtues are piety, honor, courtesy, loyalty, and, yes, chastity.

    Each of which is demonstrated by characters within the movie!

    I hope that helps clear that point up a bit for the moment.

    More to come!

    ;) 

    Well, while we're on the subject anyway...

    Of COURSE he had a reason!

    That shot actually has a very specific purpose (beyond the obvious, lol), which is a callback to a running gag from the previous films, repeating structure of a parental sex-joke introducing the female leads.

    Sam's dad is having a relationship talk with him about Mikaela and college girls and asks, "How long are you gonna be riding that scooter?" Annnnd then the very next shot is Mikaela's ass in cutoff shorts as she straddles a motorcycle! See what they did there?

    And then in the next movie, during Sam's first scene with Carly, just as he's about to meet her his mom walks RIGHT past Carly and says, "What a gorgeous box," lololol.

    So finally we have a fantastic ass-shot of Tessa in her cutoff shorts as her dad's giving her flak about how tight and short they are, and he specifically describes her as "driving a wedge" right as we actually SEE them creeping up her ass! Hahaha, so good.

    Cleverly, they even take it a little further than that. He's more specifically talking about her "driving a wedge between employer and employee," which is EXACTLY what happens immediately afterward when the employer gets upset with the employ for defending the daughter's taste in clothing by saying, "I think she looks hot."

    OMFG PERFECTION.

    XD
     
  5. Hazekiah

    Hazekiah Banned

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    I've started tightening up the OP a bit!

    It's still got a long way to go to get it where I want it and I have a LOT more to add (should've reserved the 2nd post, damnit!) but I have to step out for a few hours so it'll have to do for now.

    I changed some language and made some revisions throughout, plus I added a nice "Silver Knight" pic and made an animated .gif for the start of the piece.

    I also added a few more interesting bits that are entirely new!

    If you just scroll through the OP on the 1st page and keep an eye out for these corresponding pictures I took, it's pretty easy to spot the new stuff.


    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Hazekiah

    Hazekiah Banned

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    Man, I still have a LOT more to say about all this and keep meaning to tweak the OP and add some stuff, but I've been living on the road since I wrote this and tour-chasing and life in general keep getting in the way.

    Someday!

    In the meantime, there's been a pretty cool development today regarding the knighthood theme found within the Transformers films. And I do mean that in the PLURAL sense, since the whole motif of knight-based design elements for the Transformers themselves began with Sentinel Prime, as revealed within the bonus features for TF:DotM, which is particularly of interest since he himself may have been a Cybertronian knight like his successor was revealed to have been in the following film.

    But I digress.

    As many of you may have noticed, the news broke today that TF5 has not only been scouting for filming locations in England, but specifically at STONEHENGE.

    And so the plot thickens!

    Intriguingly, one early, fictional accounting of the building of Stonehenge, by Geoffrey of Monmouth from his 14th century book Historia Regum Brittaniae, was that it was built by none other than Merlin himself and that King Arthur's father was buried inside its ring.

    Of course there's no real way of knowing for sure exactly what their plans are for Stonehenge, but the very fact that they plan to film there at all would seem to suggest that the exploration of the knighthood theme from the previous two films is set to continue apace with the fifth!

    OMFG I CANNOT WAIT.

    Also of interest, and potential relevance to this discussion, is the lingering mystery of how exactly the massive blocks of Stonehenge were moved there and erected by ancient man. In fact, Merlin himself was said to have enlisted the help of "giants" in the task, an illustration of which from the same book by Geoffrey of Monmouth happens to be the earliest known depiction of Stonehenge, as seen below.

    So.

    Anyone wanna bet those giants who built Stonehenge will soon turn out to have been from Cybertron???

    XD

    [​IMG]
     
  7. HoneyPrime

    HoneyPrime ♥♥ Smokescreen ♥♥

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    You did an amazing job Hazekiah putting this all together. I only caught a couple of the references myself but you putting all right there in front of me made me go :jawdropper: . That's pretty cool they did that.


    I haven't posted much in the last, oh, year or so but I had to comment on this. Thanks for doing this!
     
  8. Galvatross

    Galvatross Dom Dom, Yes Yes Veteran

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    If Stonehenge has something to do with the Knights introduced in AOE, I think it could be one of the following.

    First, Stonehenge could be an ancient human-built representation of the Knights' Temenos or some other Knight-related place of lore.

    Secondly, it could be that the Dinobots visited Earth in Holocene times, and didn't leave advanced machinery, but instead built stone monuments as some form of symbolic expression.

    Stonehenge could simply end up being a battleground for the Knights. The fields of the Salisbury Plain could be an excellent wide open space for gigantic Transformers to battle, and Stonehenge would be an excellent visual marker, location indicator, and size reference. I personally think is likely regardless of whether Stonehenge itself is important in the film or not.

    Finally, perhaps it will be a reference in some way to the Dragon Mound in "A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court." Kind of like Megatron and the Lincoln Memorial in DOTM being a reference to "Atlantis Arise."
     
  9. Ironhide1234

    Ironhide1234 Here.

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    I like everything you say.
     
  10. Shockwavers

    Shockwavers Well-Known Member

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    Hazekiah, I have a small question for you.

    Galvatron has:
    - horns
    - hooves
    - no soul
    - no fear

    So... does that make him something like robot satan?
     
  11. zark225

    zark225 Talon Productions on YouTube

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    That is something that I have always thought about myself.
     
  12. TFFan01

    TFFan01 Well-Known Member

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    They wanted him to look evil, that's why Decepticons in the movies generally look like monsters.
     
  13. Hazekiah

    Hazekiah Banned

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    OMFG YES
    [​IMG]
    \m/ -___- \m/​
     
  14. unexistance

    unexistance 60:1 scale human in Diaclone world

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    AWESOME write-up!! This sort-of explains why I actually dig AoE, besides the homage to various other TF fiction

    The Last Knight?? F*** yes, more medieval theme, maybe we can get actual Dragons at last...

    So, who's King Arthur / Creator? :D 
     
  15. Galvatross

    Galvatross Dom Dom, Yes Yes Veteran

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    This totally. It really expands the film universe in numerous ways, including the Knights.

    I also want to add that the title of TF 5 is great news. It shows that AOE was dead serious in its effort to introduce new characters and concepts and actually use them. The characters and ideas introduced (Galvatron, Creators, Knights, Dinobots, Pathetic Dirty Foursome, Transformium) aren't just going to disappear without mention; they actually are going to play major roles in future films. This means we'll see more of the Knight theme and likely much more of the Dinobots. It means we'll learn more of the Creators and their attempts to control everything.

    Now I think there are several possible meanings for "The Last Knight" title. First, perhaps Prime will be the last Knight alive. Second, the Dinobots could end up being controlled by the Creators, so Prime ends up as the last Knight with some autonomy or freedom. Third, it's possible the Creators end up controling Prime, and they force him to do their bidding, therefore he is the last Knight who does what he was meant to do for the Creators. Finally, I think it's possible it refers to some new Knight who is loyal (at least on the surface) to the Creators, whether it's a new character, or maybe even Galvatron. If the latter, I suspect Galvatron will not be loyal forever, and sooner or later he will rebel against or even maniulate the Creators. He is a Decepticon after all.
     
  16. unexistance

    unexistance 60:1 scale human in Diaclone world

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    - Hasbro has put an effort to bring together some good writers & devise major storylines for their major brands including Transformers, so some continuity is to be expected :D  which is a good thing, given previous movies...

    - AoE gave me the clue on the Primes are the Cybertronian Knights, and apparently all others have been captured except Optimus, so the Last Knight to return to the creator... What's next? One's guess are as good as others :D 
     
  17. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    It does make me wonder if due to the recent news we'll be able to see some more TF characters be connected to the creators like Star Saber,Ultra Magnus,Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime.Windblade,or even The Last Autobot because it would be cool to see them not only on the sceen but how they would react to Optimus being among them.

    Also I have a feeling that one of the main villains would be Nemesis Prime and that it's actually him we see on the teaser pice and not actually Optimus. I mean think about it,how do we know that maybe the creators didn't decide to make a clone of Optimus and sent him to take him out and during the movie his colours and features turn darker and darker until he resembles the classic Nemesis Prime/Scourge we know him to be. Would be a good way to also have him be a source and conflict on Optimus,taunting him that his methods to bring peace and freedom only made things worse for himself.
     
  18. uruseiranma

    uruseiranma Well-Known Member

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    I have wondered if Galvatron being a semi in AoE, was meant in some form to be Nemesis Prime, given Joyce's line, "I modeled Galvatron to resemble Optimus Prime."
     
  19. Galvatross

    Galvatross Dom Dom, Yes Yes Veteran

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    Indeed to the second one. Also with the first one, although I think AOE and the Writer's Room are highly connected. AOE was the introduction to those concepts and characters, and the writer's room was giving more detail to their future. They're both important parts of the equation.

    Either way, tieing things all together is a good thing. It looks like the next film will attempt to roll with the ball AOE started rolling, and that's a good thing.
     
  20. DOTM Bumblebee

    DOTM Bumblebee Funny Little Man

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    Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but there were 52 named Transformers in the movies by the beginning of AOE, and I did see Shockwave's name on a card in one of the screenshots, so there were Decepticon cards, too.

    The List:
    1. Optimus Prime
    2. Bumblebee
    3. Ratchet
    4. Ironhide
    5. Jazz
    6. Sideswipe
    7. Skids
    8. Mudflap
    9. Arcee
    10. Jolt
    11. Jetfire
    12. Sentinel Prime
    13. Hound
    14. Crosshairs
    15. Drift
    16. Roadbuster
    17. Topspin
    18. Leadfoot
    19. Mirage/Dino
    20. Wheeljack/Que
    21. Megatron
    22. Starscream
    23. Barricade
    24. Blackout
    25. Bonecrusher
    26. Brawl
    27. Scorponok
    28. Frenzy
    29. Soundwave
    30. Ravage
    31. Laserbeak
    32. Crankcase
    33. Crowbar
    34. Hatchet
    35. Shockwave
    36. Scrapper
    37. Overload
    38. Mixmaster
    39. Long Haul
    40. Hightower
    41. Rampage
    42. Scavenger
    43. Demolisher
    44. Sideways
    45. Devastator
    46. Driller
    47. Reedman
    48. Scalpel
    49. Igor (that little Long Haul head in DOTM)
    50. Devcon (the giant quadruped Con, also from DOTM)
    51. The Fallen
    52. Scrapmetal

    And I guess that Lockdown's the Joker?