I think it'd be cool if he and Arcee both teamed up (Not happily of course on Arcee's part) to try killing that wretch. And each going behind their teams' backs.

 

I don't think Arcee will go as a far as to go behind the Autobots back in order to team up with Starscream. She learned the hard way of doing it in Partners so while it's likely that she'll team up with him it wouldn't be that. It will only make a lot of people hate her because of it as if there isn't enough hate for her enough as it is. I can see her doing it if there's no other way of doing it.

Like if Airachnid has either Optimus or Bumblebee hostage and the only resource there is will be Starscream. It's a great idea yes but I rather it have it so that Arcee won't be hated for doing it.

 

I'm pretty sure that he was talking about an Arcee/Knockout team up.

 

Oh right sorry.

Still I don't see Arcee going behind her teams back like that.

I can see her teaming up with Knockout if it deals with one of ther teammates or Jack and and June being kidnnabed by Airachnid.

 

Doesn't seem far-fetched to me, Arcee has been unbeliavably moronic, blinded due her raw hatred many times before, it's basically a once in eachh episode thing [her attempt to murder Starscream when he was a valuable ally for little reason other than raw hatred being a prime example of her sheer stupidity].

I can see she teaming up with Knockout to avenge her dead partner, because A) Being a reckless idiot is her specialty, B) Knockout is the least-threatening of the 'Cons, C) She has no beef with Knockout whatsoever, D) She really fucking hates Airachinid.

 

the end kind of sucked to me. i'm getting sick of the vehicons being useless fodder. the autobots didn't even move from their positions.

 

Has it ever occered to you that it may be the writers fault that she acted that way in the episode? In case you've forgotten Arcee didn't freak out about Starscream helping the first time around in Orion Pax part 2 and yet she acted in a way that's out of character for her in this episode.

You know the times where she did foolish things aren't really that many if you look back. I understand that you're not crazy about her but you seem to exgaggerate her flaws a bit too much if you look back at her progress.

You know Miko is arguably much worse then Arcee and yet you like her more. Arcee knows how serious things are while Miko on the ohter hand has a rose tainted view on the whole war though she's getting better at it.

The point is Arcee's not really stupid as you make her out to be.

 

I really don't understand that argument "it's the writer's fault", if the Writers constantly show her as being a reckless idiot, then by all logic, she is a reckless idiot. You're mixing up "what the character is" with "what you think the character is"

If anything, Arcee not losinge her shit over SS is out of character, since she goes completely berserk every single other time.

No, she does something unbeliavably moronic once every week.

And you completely ignore each of her flaws, she's a reckless imbecile, she acts without thinking, it's in her character. It's like Palpatine being scheming and acting like a douchebag, it's part of his personalitty.

Miko is a child, I like her because it seems a little obvious a child would think giant fighting robots are just awesome and don't really catch how serious things are, so it seems fitting to me. Arcee is a battle-hardened war-veteran, she must have some sort of common sense in that metal head, instead of throwing herself at death every time the name Airachinid is involved.

Andf yes, she is stupid, she charged at a decepticon-filled Warship without any back-up, I can't even describe how moronic that was, she was lucky Soundwave decided to open a spacebridge [to the artic, too, if he opened a bridge to pluton she would be screwed].

Point is, being reckless is Arcee's bread and butter in this show, of course she can make an alliance with Knockout.

 

Completely agree.

Thanks, I still don't remember that scene but at least I can re-watch the episode. And hey, at least it's one of the episodes I actually like and not one of the boring episodes so won't be a bad re-watch.

That's kind of the point of the conversation though. Use what we do know of the characters to guess what his reaction MIGHT be. We know Knock Out and Breakdown were partners in crime so to speak but weather or we could actually call them friends is debatable. I personally haven't seen anything to indicate that Breakdown was anything more than Knock Out's overly muscular nurse. lol

Of course we still haven't really seen any examples of their skills sense any medical stuff they've ever done has always happened off camera. Breakdown was introduced as Knock Out's partner but now we'll never know how much he actually contributed to the medical aspect of their characters. He was defiantly the heavy hitter in a fight but that's all we really know about their partnership. So I'm guessing unless there's more of a real friendship between them than what we've seen on camera he isn't going to care.

BTW in regards to the Arcee debate going on above me. I said this before though no one seemed to notice. Arcee had a great deal of character development during the first season that would account for her not reacting to getting info from Starscream the first time. Her getting pissed the second time ignores that character development and puts her back in that same mode of revenge as if that character development never happened. So her being angry was actually out of character sense she hasn't been like that at all sense Partners. If this episode aired before Partners then it would be in character for her to get all angry.

 

What did she do that was moronic in Orion Pax part 3 or Operation Bumblebee parts 1 and 2, I might have missed them.

 

Hyperbole, you know the drill.

 

Am I? Let's see then shall we? In One Shall Fall she stopped Bumblebee form going into a revenge frenzy when Raf was wounded which is a sign of her moving on from her grief

The thing is it's important to keep track of a characters progress in a show like how Arcee's developing overtime and there's bound to be mistakes in terms of character progression minor or otherwise. As a writer yourself you should understand this.

I

 

...yet again, a thread is taken over by Arcee debates. 

*cough* So how about those Insecticons? Crazy eh?

And Prime's quick judgement on Starscream was rather...odd. He was so quick to think and say "Starscream planned all this!"

Seems Starscream had gained some form of respect(or something like that xD) From Ratchet and Bulkhead.

Still bummed about Breakdown...we never learned about Bulkhead and his past together...there had to be something for there to be so much tension between the two.

 

Dammit man you know better than to start this shit.

You know...I agree with you this time. I was so pleased with them in the series pilot. Now they're disappointing.

 

The problem is, she did exactly once across the entire series, then she completely forgot about the whole develeopment and moved on as "MY PARTNERS ARE DEEEEAAAD", such as charging against Airachinid like a mindless moron, attacking the Warship out of revenge, acting with disdain upon hearing SS name.

The thing here is consistency, she's been shown as having developed less times than she's been shown as a reckless idiot.

I understand, but I don't forgive, it's still is a major fuck up on their part.

It's "hatred".
And no, she didn't because the occasion didn't allow her to do so, when Starscream was once more revealed as a source on Operation BB part 2, she acted with disdain.

For the record, I have nothing against the charater.

It was an hyperbole.

That would be the point if she actually managed to learn jack's squad about it, but she keeps doing the exact. same. thing

Oh yeah, she once showed some slight development, but it was promptly forgotten.

Your reasoning here makes absolutely no sense, people didn't know about Sentinel because he was a traitor, he was hiding his true character until he turned the balance. We have no reason to believe Arcee is doing the same.

Secondly, again I remind you of consistency, if the character is constantly shown as grumpy and experience, he is...well, grumpy and experienced. Character development might ensue now or later, but since he's been constantly shown with such traits, that's what he is. Arcee is shown as reckless and impulsive once every episode, so it makes sense to get to that conclusion.

It does. Children constantly go off and break bones, shatter teeth, and get injured all the time, yet some take pretty much a full decade to learn from such.

The entire point of Jack is being wise beyond his years, so I don't think it's a fair comparison. I still think a teen trying to act like Miko seems very fitting to me, she's a child, she'll learn [and she actually sort of is, her motivation changed from "AWESOME ROBOTS, MUST SEE THEM" to "I MUST HELP THE AUTOBOTS", see? Development, which is more than i can say for Arcee].

In which case:

A - They must rise above it quickly before they put their team in jeopardy [which Arcee did several times yet failed to learn her lession].

B - They get themselves killed [which Arcee almost did some fifteen times].

C - Their bosses reprehend them [which Optimus only did once].

Yes, Soldiers have problems, but they must separate life from war, or they'll wreck the entire operation and put innocent lives into danges [whch...Arcee did].

Son, you do know Arcee is a fictional character? You don't need to go up to such lenghts making excuses to her. To call me an ignorant for not knowing the "toll of a war" borders on insulting, she's not a person, she's not to be judged as one, she's a character, her drama will be judged rightfully by me based on my knowledge of the human emotions and mind, if you don't think I can do that task, you're calling me a psychopath, one who can't understand human's emotions correctly, which I believe would make me very upset on your judgement of me.

Yes I can, because she has higher responsabilities than that.

QUOTE]Sometimes stress can make you do stupid things and it's no different for Arcee.[/QUOTE]

Son, she's a fictional character.

Your reasoning makes no sense, you're saying I can't judge her now because I can't see the future. What? If she's currently shown as a reckless moron, she is a reckless moron. If she develops, then I'll call her something else.

 

You do know that she went from being hostile to Jack in the begginign then learn to be more close to him later on right? If that isn't a sign of constistancy I don't know what is.

Or just a little glitch to be fair. Either way if the writers can fix it it won't be as bad.

She actually sounded relived about it in the episode actually.

For someone who says he doens't hate the character you sure act like one who does.

Okay then

Really? I wouldn't excatuly call being more closer to Jack later on,not being as hostile towards humans,and knowing when she's doing wrong slight development at all.

Secondly, again I remind you of consistency, if the character is constantly shown as grumpy and experience, he is...well, grumpy and experienced. Character development might ensue now or later, but since he's been constantly shown with such traits, that's what he is. Arcee is shown as reckless and impulsive once every episode, so it makes sense to get to that conclusion.

We don't have a reason to think she's not either have you thought about that?

What if it's building up to something big for her like maybe an episode where she completely moves on?

The difference is that Miko's a part of a warzone where one little mistake means your dead. Miko is not getting this in her head and it shows.

I don't get why you think Arcee taking her time to let go of ehr urges is problematic when you don't seem to mind Miko taking her time learning it.

You call Miko constantly going off to do reckless acts by almost getting Jack,Taf and the other almost killed and costing them a way to bring Cybertron back development? Add to the fact that she still has a major additude problem with taking orders when needed to?

Hate to say it but Miko has that problem much worse then Arcee has. Arcee at least knows when she's doing wrong and at times apologizes for them. Like how she aplogizes to Jack's mom for beng a bit hostile in the end of Metal Attraction. I'm not saying Arcee's pefect because she's not but she's doing a better job at being more smart then the likes of Animated Bumblebee.

You know Miko herself has done that more then Arcee and yet you let her off the hook.

You're making it sound like Arcee's the only one who's doing it and yet the others like Bulhead,Ratchet and Bumblebee have their own share of blunders to go around. Arcee alos never did that much reckless stuff either like you're making it out to be.

I never said you were ignorant at all. If I did unintentionally I'm sorry I didn't mean to be insulting at all. I wasn't making excuses for her all I was doing was explaining what her characters going through is that really such a crime?

Well what about Optimus? You know he didn't get the chance to kill Megatron quickly when he had the chance in the episode which in that case he has even more higher responibltys then Arcee has add to the fact that HE failed to act on it as soon as he can and yet you don't seem to have a problem with it.

I know that well thank you very much. That doesn't mean I should stop caring for the character because of the reasons you've put out.

All I'm saying is that don't make the final judgement on her until something different for her happens. We're not done with the show and her story yet.

 

Kaijuguy19 I consider you a very nice person. I also understand that your fav Transformer is Arcee. We all have our favorites. But your going way way way way too far. You have gotten to a point that you seem to consider Arcee A REAL PERSON and try to blame the writers for her mistakes. That would only work if she was real actress and was going along with the script. She is a cartoon character. She's acting exactly the way the writers want her to.

You have a tendency here lately to turn threads into an Arcee debate and it takes over a thread. Please stop. People have their opinions about Arcee and every other Transformer as well. Don't take it so personal when someones opinion of her isn't all sunshine and roses, okay?

 

I find it odd yet rather satisfying that there's a debate going on that is completely ignoring me. Even the side I agree with doesn't seem to care. Well on the plus side, for once the debate isn't centered around me. So thanks a lot random Arcee hater making up facts out of thin air. lol

 

I'm having a hilarious mental image of the 'Cons and 'Bots at Brakdown's fueneral.
Bulkhead: "Sure, we had our fights, but in the end... *cries* it would always work out
Knockout: "It's okay, it's okay, big guy."
Optimus (to Megatron) :So... Nice weather here, huh?

 

  This episode was intense. Breakdown's death made me so sad because he went out due to his temper. I loved Breakdown, but his quick temper was his undoing and Airachnid knew it so she took the opportunity and broke him down (no pun intended). But other than that the whole episode was well written and had a lot of instense moments including the Megatron vs. Insecticon scene. And since when did this turn into a Arcee debate thread?