Early synopsis of 1986 movie plot and characters (Ron Friedman goodies)

Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by kjeevahh, Jan 2, 2011.

  1. Runamuck

    Runamuck Sushi

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Posts:
    7,356
    News Credits:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    292
    Likes:
    +32

    I'd rather not assume that is how it was done. I could use my imagination all I wanted, and come up with different ways of how it happened, but that is not how I think. I like to know how things work and how it's done.
     
  2. ZacWilliam

    ZacWilliam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2002
    Posts:
    2,925
    News Credits:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +2,049
    Sooo, you said you couldn't understand how they'd melt and then when someone gives you an example of how it could work you don't want to imagine it that way because it's speculative?

    Huh?

    What are you looking for then?
     
  3. Jeremy.B

    Jeremy.B Leader Blackout LIVES!!!

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Posts:
    7,804
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    332
    Likes:
    +86
    ha ha these arguments are hilarious
     
  4. Chunk

    Chunk Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2010
    Posts:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Likes:
    +0
    When I was a kid I didn't like the movie because they killed off a bunch of cool characters (c'mon, IRONHIDE?), and I couldn't bring myself to like Springer or Ultra Magnus or even Hot Rod because I saw them as hastily thrown-together stand-ins for the characters we all became familiar with in the cartoon.

    As an adult I don't like the movie because the writing was atrocious, and the pointless and shrewd execution of so many developed characters for no good reason shows horrible stewardship of the Transformers franchise, and degrades the cartoon and movie to a vehicle to sell toys, when it COULD have been a great series that sold toys.

    Perhaps I'm overthinking a childrens' cartoon, but the series COULD have been so much more than the Movie let it down to be with better writing, and the movie would have been the right place to do it.

    As an aside, I'm disappointed in how Starscream went out. He's my favorite character in the Transformers universe, and while his death got a decent amount of screen time, it was still rather mundane; he pisses off Megatron/Galvatron, and he gets shot. The only difference between the movie and almost every cartoon episode is that he dies this time. The only saving grace is the return of Starscream's ghost as a sort of unkillable specter. THAT is a fitting end for Starscream, but it took later cartoon episodes to pull that off.
     
  5. Runamuck

    Runamuck Sushi

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Posts:
    7,356
    News Credits:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    292
    Likes:
    +32
    Well, I actually didn't want to get into it any further. As I wanted to know how their pew pew lasers did that. I would think it would take a continuous stream of laser pinpointed at one location...and that is why I didn't want to get into it.
     
  6. AutobotSkids

    AutobotSkids G1/Bay Lover

    Joined:
    May 11, 2009
    Posts:
    2,469
    Trophy Points:
    237
    Likes:
    +145
    I like how all the season one Autobots who weren't in space at the time have undetermined fates. :lol 

    It dissapointed me how the Decepticons became untouchable badasses in the movie, and the Autobots all became cannon fodder with the aim of a Stormtrooper. I mean, Thundercracker and Skywarp were meant to die, why not have them get offed by some Autobots? How hard would it have been to have them get killed by Ironhide and Ratchet on the shuttle, or by a group of Autobots at the City?

    Optimus Prime made up for his soldiers though. :lol  And that's what matters!
     
  7. Wingwolf77

    Wingwolf77 Decepticon Dark lord

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    Posts:
    443
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Likes:
    +1
    I loved the movie (still do) and loved that they had the balls to make a kids cartoon a violent pg film. I recall thinking it made Transformers SO much better than all the other crap out there at time. Transformers had a rep of being willing to actually kill characters. You never knew who was safe!
     
  8. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2004
    Posts:
    6,784
    Trophy Points:
    211
    Likes:
    +13
    Yeah, I goofed up.

    I couldnt take pics', but when I set up the figures on the table and walked around I saw my error.

    You were right.

    I quess my sence of angles wasnt as good as I thought.

    Dont go holding grudges from old debates that you couldnt prove and letting them influence things here.

    I made a honest mistake, nothing more.

    Theres that and the confirmation in dialog in season 3.
     
  9. SMOG

    SMOG Vocabchampion ArgueTitan

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    23,515
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Location:
    Robot Narnia, Quebec
    Likes:
    +10,292
    This is an old debate, and the actual visuals from the movie contradict this... but I agree that this makes WAY more sense, and it was how I always reasoned it in my head as a kid. I'd seen enough stupid errors and stuff on the cartoon up to that point to realize that sometimes I should be selective in how I interpreted what was onscreen. :D 

    I think that's still kind of a stretch, given the wording in the script.

    I still think it's rather likely that somewhere between re-purposing the original Japanese toys, and finalizing the character line-up for 1986, someone just got their lines crossed between Sky Lynx and Predaking. I mean, one's a combiner made up from those animals... the other is a giant robotic dragon, with a gun in his "gaping maw". Of course there's no way to PROVE that someone just got mixed up about who transformed into what, but it seems pretty obvious.

    Yeah, it's probably an error either way... were there even any other characters present whose colour scheme would match that arm BESIDES Ratchet? Whether it was a mistake in colouring or layout, or an effort to incontrovertibly confirm the Death of Ratchet, I think it's pretty inconclusive.

    As well, I agree about the "dies, turns gray" thing in general. For one thing, it's stupid... what, when they die, all their paint spontaneously flakes off?? Though it definitely seems to be something they wanted to implement in the '86 movie as an indicator of death, even though it didn't totally catch on.

     
  10. Chunk

    Chunk Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2010
    Posts:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Likes:
    +0
    Well said. Watching the entire cartoon and movie series in one, the movie seems all the worse, and this is the main reason why. Every other episode someone is getting blasted my Megatron. In robot mode, in gun mode, in gun mode held by someone... he's constantly zapping people, and they may go flying against a rock wall and shake some cobwebs off, but we never saw a character die instantly. Then the movie comes around and Autobots are dropping like flies from the same wounds.

    It's out of sorts with the rest of the series, and while I might look upon Ironhide getting killed trying to (for example) defend Bumblebee and be saddened, I watch the movie as it was and think "idiot writers". There was just no point to it all, and that's a shame.

    I see where you're coming from. Megatron was always threatening Starscream, and Galvatron storming in to blast him without much in the way of pretense certainly sets up Galvatron as more brutal than Megatron. And I agree Starscream as a character has to have an arc that ends in his demise at some point.

    I just think it should have been played out more. Perhaps give Starscream a chance to command the troops as he always wanted, only to find he's not very good at it. THEN Galvatron might show up, take over, and leave Starscream to grovel for his life as usual, only to find Galvatron won't spare him the way Megatron always did.

    I guess I'm just a huge Starscream fanboy, but with Starscream plotting to supplant Megatron in what seemed like every single episode, to just blast him to bits on the EVE of his succession feels like I (as a fan) am being robbed of what could have been at least a very entertaining coda to Starscream's life, and at best a great lesson in the consequences of blind ambition without ability. Cause you KNOW the scene where Starscream led the troops would have been a hilarious disaster! :) 
     
  11. Lunar Archivist

    Lunar Archivist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Posts:
    1,105
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Likes:
    +28
    Actually, we're not really arguing about whether or not Ratchet died. His death was confirmed in "Dark Awakening". What we're arguing about is exactly when Ratchet died and the lack of continuity in the positions of the Autobots' bodies during the shuttle scene.

    I'm not holding a grudge from old debates in this case. You steadfastly maintained over half a dozen posts spread across multiple pages that you were right even though everyone knew that you were wrong. The only reason we're not still arguing about this is because you actually considered that you might be mistaken for the first time in...well...ever and decided to look into it.

    Also, let's get one thing straight, Sto Vo Kor, before putting our "feud" side once and for all: contrary to what you may believe, you don't win arguments. You annoy the hell out of people with your stubbornness until they throw up their metaphorical hands and give up because trying to reason with you is about as useful as discussing nuclear physics with an avocado.

    I always found the choice of survivors ironic because two of those three characters would never appear again: Scatman Crothers died and Casey Kasem quit the show.

    Given the way that they were playing musical chairs with the Autobots' bodies in the shuttle, it could just as easily have been Prowl's arm.

    My best guess is that the scene was altered somewhere halfway through. The hand on the right was colored black and was originally supposed to be Ironhide's. However, someone realized at this point that this wouldn't work because, in order to get a clear shot at Ironhide, the latter would have to be grabbing Megatron's right leg since Megatron's fusion cannon is on his right arm. If Ironhide were in his original, expected position and grabbing Megatron's left leg, Megatron would have to fire his fusion cannon sideways and at an angle, possibly running the risk of blowing the lower half of his left leg away along with Ironhide. The coloring mistake stuck, though, leaving us with the confusing end result we saw in the movie.

    It also raises questions about ambiguous in-between states. In the movie, when a Transformer dies, the color in their eyes fades and they turn gray and black. Makes you wonder about Windcharger and Wheeljack, whose eyes were black as soot but whose bodies remained colored. Were they in the Transformers equivalent of a vegetative state or coma or something? And let's not even get started on Ultra Magnus...

    Actually, I think it was the writers just going nuts with their newfound freedom. They were forced to keep things all sweetness and light for the television show and write drivel for the kiddies, all the while being careful not to tip the apple cart over. When they were suddenly given the chance to kill off characters and introduce profanity, they took the ball and ran with it by blowing up said metaphorical apple cart with a nuke.
     
  12. Recall

    Recall Player Select

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Posts:
    6,127
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Likes:
    +12
    Animation mistakes taken as cannon?

    lol
     
  13. SMOG

    SMOG Vocabchampion ArgueTitan

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    23,515
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Location:
    Robot Narnia, Quebec
    Likes:
    +10,292
    Right, except that's why I asked... Prowl's forearm is BLACK with a WHITE hand, not the other way around, so even in a "dead gray", you'd think the tones would be inverted.
    Yeah, pretty much. Or, as was suggested earlier, they just simply flipped the image in the final cut since it seemed to match the action better (or the placement of Megatron's fusion cannon).

    Exactly. He's blasted into tiny bits, and presumed dead, but the Junkions just pop all his ball-joints back together. Transformer "death" has always been vague and not so permanent, so it seemed like it was being unequally portrayed in the movie.

    Well, let's face it... a lot of these guys were TV and comic book writers, so writing drivel was really their job. They weren't exactly turning out a lot of smart, innovative material, so they have themselves to blame on that count. :) 

    It's the lack of restraint that I find a bit juvenile, really... though I sort of understand where the sentiment would have come from. I'm glad a lot of what was described in the script got toned down.

    zmog
     
  14. Cosablanca

    Cosablanca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2010
    Posts:
    291
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Likes:
    +3
    Razorclaw would have been called Simba!!! hahaha. What about Mufasa!!??
    That would have def affected Disney;s Lion King;s Cartoon me thinks...
     
  15. tilallareone08

    tilallareone08 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2008
    Posts:
    190
    Trophy Points:
    97
    Likes:
    +16
    Agree 100%

    Great to see someone who thinks they are never wrong (eventually) admit they are wrong.
     
  16. SMOG

    SMOG Vocabchampion ArgueTitan

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    23,515
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Location:
    Robot Narnia, Quebec
    Likes:
    +10,292
    Sto occasionally admits to being wrong, or making mistakes... this isn't the first time by any means.

    It just has to be a really solid, incontrovertible, absolutely self-evident unambiguous empirical truth, before he'll consider the possibility of being wrong. :) 

    zmog
     
  17. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2003
    Posts:
    6,753
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    241
    Likes:
    +24

    I never had any doubt about Brawn after watching the Movie on an HDTV. The shot went clean trough Brawn, you can see a non-smoking hole in his chest as he spins around.
     
  18. KupDidntCThis

    KupDidntCThis Autobot Smoke-a-Blunt

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Posts:
    71
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Likes:
    +0

    NO! some of the stuff was bad, but the 60's metal stuff...no
     
  19. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2004
    Posts:
    6,784
    Trophy Points:
    211
    Likes:
    +13
    Thank you very much.

    I always felt it was prety conclusive.

    But theres still the confirmation of his death in "Dark awakening"

    If that were true you wouldnt have made any comments that refrance an old debate.

    You did, so, wether or not you realise it, that old debate influanced your replies here.

    Yes, because I thought I was right.

    What do you expect, for me just to take the words of others??

    I honestly thought I was right, till I ran the experiment I mentioned.I saw I was wrong and admired to it.

    And "everyone knew I was wrong", when did 3 or 4 members become "everyone"??

    Your making this personal for no reason what so ever.

    "ever"??

    Sorry but thats BS.

    I always consider the possibility of being wrong, an I ask other to prove their case.Dont blame me because most cant.

    The only reason we're still not arguing is because I was wrong and I was man enough to own up to it.

    The tactic of those couldnt make their case.

    Not unless your suggesting they got the colors all wrong too.

    Prowls forearm would have been black-ish with the hand being closer to white.

    The definition of canon and how it applies to a work of fiction does not exclude animation errors.


    Not exactly.

    I always consider the possibility of being wrong.

    But I wont admit to being wrong till some one proves it in a "solid, incontrovertible, absolutely self-evident unambiguous empirical truth,"that I am wrong.

    Again thanks.

    Umm, wasnt he shot in the arm??
     
  20. Runamuck

    Runamuck Sushi

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Posts:
    7,356
    News Credits:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    292
    Likes:
    +32
    I always thought he was hit in the shoulder. But I'm not sure, to be honest.