I just thought I'd log in and pose some questions...

I got Alpha Trion today. And on the back of his box it has a blurb about how great Primus is.

Everywhere I read, watch, or hear Transformers...There is mention of Primus. The creator of the Transformers...

Now I love the work that Simon Furman did on TF, BUT... Creating Primus was the worst thing he ever did writing for TF.

I prefer the idea put forth in the first issue of the marvel g1 comics:

"Yet, life had evolved here. It had grown and adapted and thrived in its environment remarkably well"

And:

"Whereas life in the cosmos usually evolved through carbon-bonding, here it was the interaction of naturally occurring gears, levers, and pulleys that miraculously brought forth sentient beings."

Basically, it seems more ... epic for lack of a better word, than any explanation involving Primus (a god).

In issue 73 or 74 of the marvel g1 comic, it is said that the universe itself created Primus to battle Unicron.

This demands the question, how did the universe become aware and alive?

Was this ever explained in any TF media?

 

I don't like the idea of Primus or Unicron as literal gods in an eternal cosmic struggle. I can deal with it, but it just doesn't seem to fit the earlier mythos to me.

I don't mind the idea of an ancient and mysterious being at the core of Cybertron, which Cybertronians might revere as a deity. More like Vector Sigma with a body, or Takara's adoption of Primus into the G1 cartoon timeline (minus the weird gymnastics to get him there).

 

The idea? No. The implementation? More often than not, yes.

Primus as an actual, physical being who is an all-powerful creator secretly curled up into Cybertron to me has always been too blunt. I don't mind Primus being a legend that's unsubstanciated or unproven, it's when he actually physically shows up it's like, yeah, guess we just know everything now. I also wouldn't mind him as just a giant robot who people think is a creator, but is really just an old TF who's really huge.

Primus also works into the problem of virtually every TF fiction where, despite being billions of years old, the noteworthy events of Cybertronian history can be summed up in a short paragraph. Human history is rife with conflict, movements, culture, etc. Yet all of Cybertron conforms to a single origin story, and all of Cybertron is basically as nuanced as a single city on Earth. Most series have only had the one war. The great war. And after 4 million years of fighting, most everything important happens in the last two or so years once they get to Earth.

It's that odd moment where even introducing the multiverse, which has all these TFs of different timelines, creeds, and histories come together, dump it all into a big melting pot, and it's less detailed than the last hundred or so years of human history.

I personally prefer the idea that Transformers were once organic, or at least not the same kind of robotics that they are today. Some would call that heresy, but it's the only origin that makes sense in a tellable way. "Naturally occuring gears and pulleys" is an oxymoron. the idea that they were closer to organic life and evolved, either deliberately or naturally, into more rudimentary mechanical beings makes far more sense.

 

In regards to your second question, the actual statement was that the sentient core of the universe created primus

In other words the sentient core would be Akin to the concept of God, being the creator of everything

But at a basic level you need to keep in mind that the comic was written by Marvel , And marvel has always been pretty vague and ambiguous to how sentient it's universe really is

 

Hate it? A qualified NO. Hate the implementation of it, most of the time, yes. To me Primus should never be a physical being, always Metaphysical. No Primus is Cybertron, no Primus is the core of Cybertron. Primus is The Allspark, with the Matrix and Vector Sigma and the Primes being his outlet into the physical universe.

 

Same. I don't mind Primus being a myth some Cybertronians believe in and as a possible creator figure. But having it be the undisputed fact that we as readers know beyond a shadow of a doubt (ala Furman's Marvel retcon origin) is effing boring.

Like the thread-starter, I prefer the more mysterious original origin described in the first Marvel issue. And I prefer the Quintesson origin from the Sunbow cartoon over either.

 

I've no problem with Primus. As a kid the fact that the Transformers had a theology only enhanced the fiction for me.

Alpha Trion on the other hand is a horrible cliché. The fact that recent fiction has made him part of the Thirteen annoys me no end.

His design with the ridiculous facial hair and glasses and his horribly clichéd personality is along the lines of the garbage that the Bay movies spew out.

 

So, you're saying the Bay movies are closer to G1 than they get credit for being. Yeah, I agree.

I don't know why you bring up Alpha Trion, though. If you want the origin, you go to Vector Sigma, not Alpha Trion.

 

The original poster mentioned Alpha Trion and I just went into rant mode. I hate him. Even as a kid I thought he and a lot of Season 2 were just silly.

I suppose I was spoilt reading the always great Marvel UK comic.

 

No I rather like the idea of primus as an embodiment of order to oppose Unicron as chaos incarnate. I personally like him as a creator of the Transformer race though my personal head canon is he directly created he 13 then after they defeated and banished Unicron she used them as inspiration to create a full race of his children so to speak via the gears evolution idea from the comics.

I hate he quintesson origin as to me i feel it lessens the cybertronian race although its not as bad as the sunbow Unicron origin , now that is a steaming pile of monkey crap. I personally view them as having conquered a young Cybertronian race who later threw off their oppressors.

 

Yes! Yes! A double resounding yes. I absolutely LOATH that whole primua nonsense! I hate the dictatorial insistence of trying to retcon this rightwing religious crap into every continuity.

The Quintessons are one of the greatest concepts Transformers fiction ever came up with. To have them be the sinister selfserving creators of the Transformers gave Transformers so much more depth.
Not to mention it gave Vector Sigma a shroud of mistery and a shade of moral ambiguity.

Turning this thing of ours into just another light vs dark duality bullshit with a bland empty so called creator god is demeaning to Unicron, demeaning to Cybertron and demeaning to Transformers!

 

I don't really hate the idea of Primus, but as a writer trying to think of my own stories, I think the way Primus is usually portrayed is basically how not to implement the idea of a creator God. Sometimes it can work, but sometimes you need to have this sense of mystery, that even if this being existed, the stories may not be accurate. The history of this being may be a great unknown, and no one knows the truth. Primus pretty much always defies that.

 

I like the idea of Primus. With Transformers of pretty much every shape and size, I've always liked the idea of Cybertron itself being a Transformer, and the progenitor of the Cybertronian race. Although I pretty much think his involvement with the Cybertronian race should be kept as the source of Sparks, allowing them to evolve naturally without his interference or knowledge of his existence.

 

I like the idea of the Primus myth. Kind of an interesting idea for the Transformers to have been created as a Chosen Race...that dropped the ball by mostly killing themselves off by the time the Ultimate Threat surfaces.

 

Well, I like the idea of a transforming Cybertron. I would have loved if in the animated movie instead of using the matrix to kill Unicron from the inside they used it to awaken Primus/Cybertron and have a colossal robot fight.
As a metaphysical god...meh, I don't think it fits very well the concept of transformers.

 

If we're going to have Primus, just make him like Unicron, a huge planet-sized robot. That alone is awesome, there's no need to have him as the god of this universe of some nonsense like that. Why would there be any focus on religion in a franchise called TRANSFORMERS?

 

I have always been fascinated by this, highly implausible though it may be, as it makes their form of life seem even more rare than our own.

But to your question, and as many have said, I don't care for the way Primus has been portrayed. That said, the difficulty in portraying something (God) that is entirely intangible to us...in a body of fiction where characters can literally see and manipulate their own souls...is understandable, so perhaps their God should indeed be tangible and accessible.

 

It gave us this, so it can't be that bad.

Half the time Primus shows up he's background lore that doesn't affect the current plot, so I don't particularly care.

 

I personally like Primus, at least as a concept, as he adds more story potential to the Transformers' origins than having them just be the result of alien evolution does. Sadly, there's not really been much done with him in recent years and Hasbro forcing everything to follow the general idea of the Covenant of Primus, which, from my understanding, lays out every detail of the mythology (haven't read it, myself) has resulted in the whole idea losing its sense of mystery.

 

It seems the opposite way to me. Everything about the Quintesson origin involves the Transformers evolving beyond their design, rejecting limitations, and struggling to overcome oppression and achieve freedom, and generally always becoming more than what they were.

Under the Primus origin, the Transformers remain pawns in a struggle between gods. Their freedom, their history and civilization, their wars and struggles all ultimately meaningless, infinitely less important than these two deities--who are themselves unimpressively simplistic personifications of abstract ideas.