Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by deathsheadx, Apr 5, 2008.

  1. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Posts:
    38,847
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +17,899
    Ebay:
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    YouTube (Legacy):
    Kill the Moon - "What an asshole!" said Gilbert Godfried when regarding the Doctor. :D  The overall plot was a little ridiculous in the end, but the episode featured a lot of great suspense as those spider creatures were quite creepy. It was funny at the beginning when the Doctor had no idea who Courtney was since he only knew her as "Disruptive Influence." Not sure how I feel about him being reckless enough to bring a child to the future, but it's not like he didn't do that last season either, so meh, whatever. The whole egg thing though... I don't know how I feel about it.

    Mummy on the Orient Express - Oh man, this one is right up there with Listen in being the best of the season. Such an incredibly tense episode with a new take on a mummy story. Not to mention it takes place on a train and trains are cool. Loved it! I don't remember if we ever meet Gus again, but I enjoyed this episode from start to finish even if the ending felt a bit rushed. A shame the engineer guy didn't stick around.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Posts:
    38,847
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +17,899
    Ebay:
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    YouTube (Legacy):
    Flatline - Another really solid horror-esque episode. I loved that those who were taken didn't get reverted back at the end as this show will sometimes do. It had great moments of tension, a fascinating breed of creatures, and some well timed moments of comedy to relieve the suspense before amping it back up. I loved Clara's comment about moving the Tardis Addams Family style.

    In the Forest of the Night - This one was kind of a mixed bag for me. It started out with a compelling narrative, only to take a nose dive in pacing as it continued on. Plus, the final act was just dumb. So god damn stupid. It may not be the worst episode of the season, but it's definitely at the very bottom. My favorite moment was when the Doctor is trying to figure out why none of the kids are amazed at the Tardis and one of the girls retorts with, "There wasn't a forest, then there was. Nothing surprises us anymore."
     
  3. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Posts:
    38,847
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +17,899
    Ebay:
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    YouTube (Legacy):
    Dark Water/Death in Heaven - Killing off Danny the way they did seems a bit... forced as if they were trying to do it for shock value more than anything else. It also seems way too soon to off him as it makes half of this season utterly pointless. Fortunately, there is a good story to go with it that makes up for it as I loved the whole Night of the Living Cybermen plot. Missy turning out to be the Master was obvious, yet, well done. I loved the moment when she pretended to be a robot. The Doctor being deemed the President of the World seems a bit farfetched, but at least it made for a great burn towards Missy. It also seems a bit contrived that the Doctor managed to program a bracelet to bring one person back from the dead, yet, it is Doctor Who, so meh, whatever. The show's gonna do what the show wants to do.

    Overall, the season started out quite shaky and improved along the way for the most part. There wasn't a single episode that was perfect, though when the season was great, it was truly great. When it was low, it went beyond the bottom of the barrel. Thankfully, it was an improvement over Smith's final season, so kudos for that. I do feel like they are finally figuring out how they want to write Capaldi, so that's good, now they just need to keep up with it.

    My rankings for this season are probably as follows:

    1. Listen
    2. Mummy on the Orient Express
    3. The Caretaker
    4. Time Heist
    5. Dark Water/Death in Heaven
    6. Flatline
    7. Kill the Moon
    8. Deep Breath
    9. In the Forest of the Night
    10. Into the Dalek
    11. Robots of Sherwood

    And since we had time, we got started right away on Season 9 with...

    The Last Christmas - Nick Frost kills it as Santa. I love the homage to Alien and even their comments about the film and the Doctor's reply towards it. It's got a lot of layers to it and it kind of justifies the finale to the last season. If I have any complaints towards it is that this should have been Clara's goodbye. Her being old should not have been a dream and this si where her and the Doctor parted ways. That would have made for a much graniose finale for a companion as opposed to another companion dying scenario. Nevertheless, it may not be better than A Christmas Carol or The Snowmen, but it is certainly up there.
     
  4. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Posts:
    38,847
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +17,899
    Ebay:
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    YouTube (Legacy):
    We kicked off Capaldi's second season today and damn does this thing kick off with a bang. Before I get into it though, I've gotta say that this has got to be the longest string of horror-esque episodes the show has had since the Hinchcliffe era. I love it. More than half of the run so far has all been horror, which is amazing. Kudos to Moffat and I am really loving the two part format this season is offering.

    The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar - At first, I was like, "Jesus, ANOTHER god damn Dalek episode?" However, not only is this the best Dalek story since Journey's End, but it perhaps the best use of Davros since his very first appearance in Genesis of the Daleks. If you're going to bring back a villain, THIS is how you do it! Additionally, every scene that featured Missy was just pure gold. Gomez is really putting out all of the stops to make her version of the Master fun and intriguing, yet, threatening. Never let your guard down against her because it will probably be the death of you.

    Under the Lake/Before the Flood - Aw damn, this one is even better than the last story. It's exceptional! Lots of suspense, lots of tension, a creative plot, a really cool looking alien monster, and just a lot of great chemistry from the entire cast. I think my favorite moment of dialog though comes from the Doctor's, "Who's in charge so I know who to ignore?" And then when he asks "Why are you still talking to me?" to the corporate executive jackass. Another thing I find interesting is how reckless Clara has become. She clearly doesn't care about her own safety anymore as she's got nothing to lose and I love this portrayal. It adds a nice touch.

    Wow, four episodes done and this season is already off to an amazing start.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    44,417
    News Credits:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    437
    Location:
    Georgia
    Likes:
    +36,034
    Davros is used even better in some Big Finish Audios

    Davros
    [​IMG]
    Juggernaughts
    [​IMG]
    and Terror Firma (He's at the height of his most evil in Terror Firma)
    [​IMG]

    Also if you want more of Missy
    [​IMG]
    She has her own series
    [​IMG]
    And has been doing some guest starring in others.
     
  6. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Posts:
    38,847
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +17,899
    Ebay:
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    YouTube (Legacy):
    Knocked another two episodes out today.

    The Girl Who Died/The Woman Who Lived - Not as good as the last pair of episodes, but still good nonetheless. I really enjoyed the callbacks to Fires of Pompeii and the Davison story where the London Fire occurred in from his first season. On the other hand, Williams was pretty much just playing Arya Stark, just with a different name and in a different universe. The concept of her being practically immortal is a cool idea, especially with the toll it took on her in the second half. I will say I don't think the second part was as strong as the first, but meh, whatever. At least the Doctor finally admits he can do whatever he wants because he is the Doctor.
     
  7. Switchblade

    Switchblade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Posts:
    14,706
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +1,752
    This is my favorite season of the modern series, just edging out 5. There's one episode that's a clunker, but the rest is consistently good to great and there's at least one legitimate masterpiece.
     
  8. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Posts:
    38,847
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +17,899
    Ebay:
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    YouTube (Legacy):
    I'm not a fan of No More Sleep either. In fact, I'm really dreading it, but at least it has one line in it worth watching it for, "Why do you guys always put Space in front of everything?"
     
  9. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Posts:
    38,847
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +17,899
    Ebay:
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    YouTube (Legacy):
    The Zygon Invasion/The Zygon Inversion - This feels like an apology for the unfinished plotline from the anniversary special. It's also a mess in a lot of places, but at least it ends pretty well. There's just too much going on with too many subplots happening and despite being a two parter, not enough time to fully flesh them all out. Like the plot with Stewart in New Mexico. That was absolutely pointless. On the other hand, Coleman was terrific when it came to playing Zygon Clara. Just absolutely stunning and it is probably her best performance in the entire show. The Doctor's speech towards the end with the boxes was fantastic too and it is a shame it was a slog to get there. Beyond that, I did love the bits of horror sprinkled throughout even if it didn't always hit. It might be the weakest of the 2 parters from this season, but it still had its moments.

    Sleep No More - Leave it to the Japanese to love the idea of a machine that will let them continue to work without needing sleep. :p  Anyway, this episode is garbage just for the fact that it is filmed in a found footage style. I hate found footage films so this one lost me instantaneously. Thankfully it does have the line, "Why do you humans always put space in front of everything just because it's high tech?" to make the episode worth watching. It's a shame though, because if it wasn't done in the found footage style, it could have been a horror masterpiece in the same vein as The Robots of Death or Seeds of Doom.
     
  10. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Posts:
    38,847
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +17,899
    Ebay:
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    YouTube (Legacy):
    We didn't feel like watching the next disc of Capaldi tonight, so we decided to kick off our Pertwee viewing.

    Spearhead from Space - As I thought last year when I watched this for the first time, it was very damn good. It was well paced and never bored me for even a micro second. Pertwee does a great job discovering who is Doctor is as the show progresses and Shaw seems like a good companion to replace Jaime and Zoe. The Autons also make for an intrguing group of villains despite the climatic battle being a tad underwhelming. Overall, a truly kick ass premier.
     
  11. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Posts:
    38,847
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +17,899
    Ebay:
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    YouTube (Legacy):
    Jeez, now I'm really confused. On the bonus features back for the first disc, they said Peter's last name was pronounced as "Capaildi," but the extras I watched tonight were pronouncing it as "Capauldi," which is what I originally thought it was. Which is it? Anyway...

    Face the Raven/Heaven Sent/Hellbent - Oh my god, this was hands down Capaldi's greatest story! It was nice to see Rigsy back for what ended up being an interestingly saddening finale to Clara. Or at least, it seemed that way. The scene when the Doctor goes off on Arya Stark was just brilliant. Of course, the highlight, and what is hands down the greatest Doctor Who episode since Vincent and the Doctor is without a doubt "Heaven Sent." Not only was it like watching someone play a Clock Tower video game, but Capaldi does a phenomenal job of being able to pull off the entire episode on his own. The creature in this thing was creepy as hell. It was also refreshing that was he kept mysterious without any real identity. Easily the best creature since the Silence. And then to finish it all off we have the extremely radiant Hellbent, which featured a pissed off Doctor treating the Time Lords like utter trash, and rightly so. Watching him step outside of the barn, see that the leader is not there and walking back in was superb. What even made it more powerful is how he was able to turn the guards against him without uttering a single word. Sure, bringing Clara back was a little dumbfounded, as it kind of ruined her final sacrifice, but since she is going to fix that time issue, it's not that big of a deal, especially considering how powerful Jenna's acting continued to be in the end. The only true negative I have is it seemed quite pointless to have the Sisters of Karn there as they didn't do anything. Nevertheless, this was a grandiose season finale the show has not had since the Pandorica two parter, if not Journey's End.

    The Husbands of River Song - While not as dark and depressing as the finale trilogy, it still manages to pull on your heart strings knowing this is the last time the Doctor and River will ever meet. It does get a little campy in bits, especially when it comes to the emperor that sounds like the name of an off-brand cereal, but the show works for the most part. Watching the Doctor pretend to be amazed at the interior of the Tardis was hilarious and those aliens that could open their heads were intriguing.

    The Return of Dr Mysterio - As I've always said, this special does Superman better than freaking Man of Steel and Justice League. How is it that BBC is able to understand what Superman is supposed to be when even the character's owners can't figure it out? It was fun, it was cheesy, and most of all, he wore a god damned costume!! That alone right there makes it better than most super hero films and TV shows. Add on top some quirkily funny dialog, especially when Not-Lois Lane is interviewing the Doctor with the squishy toy, and you have yourself a good time. What makes it even more impressive about Grant/The Ghost is that he was the dude that couldn't even act his way through Dragonball Evolution, yet, he does a fantastic job here. Nardal was weird, especially since I have no idea how the Doctor was able to re-attach his head. On the downside, I wish they had done more with the head splitting aliens as they left a lot of potential open from Husbands, but oh well.

    Well that concludes Season 9 (and technically starts Season 10) and what a season this one was. Capaldi and Coleman just killed it with every episode. I know I'm repeating myself, but this season was the best season since Smith's first, and perhaps even better than that one. The multi-part stories for the majority of the season was a great idea and I wish they would have continued doing that for the next instead of returning to the redundant single story episodes. Furthermore, I loved how much horror was involved with this season as it really did feel like Moffat was channeling his inner Hinchcliffe. Then again, even Capaldi seemed to be conveying his love for Tom Baker here as he was full of the egotistical and thought provoking conversations the Fourth Doctor envoked. Moffat and his team were clearly at the top of their game for this season. My rankings are as follows:

    1. Face the Raven/Heaven Sent/Hellbent
    2. Under the Lake/Before the Flood
    3. The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar
    4. The Girl Who Lived/The Woman Who Died
    5. The Last Christmas
    6. The Zygon Invasion/The Zygon Inversion
    7. The Husbands of River Song
    8. The Return of Dr Mysterio
    9. Sleep No More
     
  12. SHINOBI03

    SHINOBI03 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2012
    Posts:
    17,441
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +18,412
    Capauldi.
     
  13. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Posts:
    38,847
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +17,899
    Ebay:
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    YouTube (Legacy):
    But Chris Hardwick said in the one feature that Peter told him it was Pail.
     
  14. SHINOBI03

    SHINOBI03 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2012
    Posts:
    17,441
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +18,412
    I remember it as Paul from the Sylvester McCoy panel I went to years ago, but if that's the case then maybe it's a matter of accents and difference in pronunciations.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Max Rawhide

    Max Rawhide Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' ... uh, never mind

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Posts:
    7,783
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +7,742
    I think Heaven Sent is one of the best if not The best episodes of the modern series, and even one of the best Doctor Who stories of all times. It's an intriguing story, well written, well acted, the stakes are high and the story surprised you (the hero dies, again and again). I keep returning to it.

    However, my worries at the time became reality. When RTD wrote the finale for his second Doctor's second season, I liked part 1 (Utopia) and part 2...and then it crashed down for the final part. And here we had Moffatt writing the finale for his second Doctor's second season and it was again a three parter. And I liked part 1 (Raven), I absolutely loved part 2 (Heaven Sent), but part 3.... Yeah, not a fan of Hell Bent.

    For the first time I found myself agreeing with people that Moffat created huge storylines, but the pay off wasn't what you expected. The whole Hybrid mystery was not what the story was about, and even the whole hybrid itself was pretty much glossed over. (Personally, I still think it should've been the Doctor himself, to connect to the 8th Doctor about being part human, part timelord: two great warrior races.)

    Although I've come to accept it for what it is and really can't think of a Hybrid based storyline that wouldn't fall flat on its arse, what still annoys me is the Doctor's actions to save Clara (and thus the centre piece of the story). I don't think the relationship between them warrants these actions of him. Sure, she saved every incarnation of his, but she also put him in danger, was a control freak, and egoist, egotistical and the Doctor himself concluded that she started to take too much risk. (If a modern companion should be saved by him it was Bill, since he guaranteed her she would be save and her fate due to his misjudgment was much worse than Clara's.) It's a returning issue for me throughout the modern series: the companion's leaving is always this big drama (save for Martha) and they never (save Martha) just leave to go on with their lives.


    However, all in all I did think this second season for Capaldi was a definite improvement over the first (as was his hair cut), although I cared little to nothing for the whole Me character.
     
  16. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Posts:
    38,847
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +17,899
    Ebay:
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    YouTube (Legacy):
    See, I don't think the Hybrid was glossed over, it was just a legend that meant nothing. The Doctor stated this during his discussion with the captain of the guard. There never was a true hybrid and Me confirmed this at the end of the universe.

    As for him wanting to bring Clara back, you have to think about how much this version of the Doctor depended on her. There were times when she became the Doctor and he sat back and watched. He grew to love her as a grand child and wanted anything to keep her alive. Thus, he did what he did because he wasn't ready to let go.
     
  17. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Posts:
    38,847
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +17,899
    Ebay:
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    YouTube (Legacy):
    The Pilot - Not exactly the most thrilling season premier, but it does have its merits. The scenes showing the Doctor do his lectures was neat as it shows us why people love his lectures as opposed to us just having to believe Bill's words that people do. That's always nice when writers decide to show you something rather than just tell you about it. That seems to be a rarity these days since exposition is so much easier and cheaper. The plot itself had some cool bits as the water creature thing built up a frightening persona as the episode progressed. On the other hand, I'm not sure what I think about Bill still. I wasn't blown away with her the first time I watched this season and I'm still not sure right now. She asks way too many questions, and while that is something someone would realistically do, it does tend to get on the annoying side since it leads into the aforementioned exposition dumps.

    Smile - Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, an interesting premise that feels kind of underwhelming in the end. I'm not sure why it doesn't work for me, as it had a lot of solid moments such as when the Doctor reveals the fertilizer to be people, but I've seen this type of plot before many times over and outside of trying to do Emoji robots, it didn't feel like it was original enough. Of course, this was a far superior Emoji Movie compared to the one that actually exists, so I guess it has that going for it despite Patrick Stewart not being present. Thankfully, the episode doesn't drag on, so I'm not going to complain about it too much.
     
  18. Max Rawhide

    Max Rawhide Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' ... uh, never mind

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Posts:
    7,783
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +7,742
    I think that is what people mean when they critique Moffatt. The Hybrid was hyped up from the start of the season to be the big bad. Davros talks about it and of course the Doctor is put in his own personal hell and tormented just to reveal what he knows...and then nothing. The Hybrid isn't the focus of the final story and in the end it just meant nothing.

    In a way that's brilliant. Doing something completely opposite to what the audience expects. And as I said, I really can't think of a way to do make a story about the hybrid as some big bad that would work, or just be very superficial. In that way, it was the right choice.

    I do disagree, however, with your interpretation that it was just a legend that meant nothing. Nor do I get that impression from Me at the end of the universe. During this scene the Doctor claimed the Hybrid was Me, while Me had two theories about the identity of the Hybrid: 1) it was the Doctor, hinting at him being half human/half Timelord (as from the movie and the 8th Doctor), 2) the hybrid wasn't one person but two, The Doctor and Clara, with Clara being the reason why the Doctor would risk all of space and time for her.

    But in the end I think Moffat's idea was that it was a prophesy that was misunderstood. The Timelords feared some great warrior that would risk and destroy all of time and space and stand at the end in its ruins. But the story shows it to be the natural end of the universe and not the result of the actions of the Hybrid. That doesn't take away that the Hybrid doesn't exist. It definitely does -- but who it is, isn't important. It could be Me, it could be The Doctor, it could be Clara and The Doctor. All were present at the end and all in some way are a (possible) hybrid.


    EDIT: But if Me was right and the Hybrid is indeed the Doctor as he is urged on by Clara (as intended by Missy), then in a way the episode is indeed about the Hybrid and the threat it forms. Because driven on to save Clara from death, the Doctor is willing to indeed risk all of space and time. And in that sense he has become the threat the Timelords feared the Hybrid would be.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Posts:
    38,847
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +17,899
    Ebay:
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    YouTube (Legacy):
    Thin Ice - A pretty enjoyable episode, though Bill questioning everything is starting to get tiresome. Sometimes it's funny, especially when the Doctor trolls her with things like, "Peter did step on a butterfly," other times, it's not. The giant fish monster was a decent idea. My favorite scene is when they trick the foreman dude into revealing everthing.


    Knock Knock - This one starts off really great with an intriguing mystery and suspense, but it kind of gets stiff in the end. It's a little too wooden for my taste. :)  I don't know, the ending just seems kind of generic, especially since everyone is resurrected at the end, making their "deaths" meaningless.
     
  20. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Posts:
    38,847
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +17,899
    Ebay:
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    YouTube (Legacy):
    And the Silurians - For being 7 episodes, it was well paced. There were only a few scenes that I felt dragged a bit, but nothing major enough where I was wishing it was only like 4 episodes long. The Silurians were a little goofy looking, but they came out feeling like true threats. I really liked the dynamic between the Doctor and Liz, especially when they were working on the cure for the virus. Speaking of which, the virus was a little lackluster because the effects made no sense. Some people dropped dead almost immediately while others seemed unaffected by it for hours, if at all. Like the government worker idiot. He manages to take a train, a taxi, and then walk around before he drops dead while other people were dead just from being next to someone.