Do you consider Ultra Magnus to be an official Autobot Leader?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Matrixbeast, Oct 10, 2021.

  1. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    And Spock assumed command of the Enterprise and crew every time Kirk wasn’t around

    That didn’t make him “co-leader”
     
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  2. Preach Starscream

    Preach Starscream Well-Known Member

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    I definitely see him as a leader. A leader doesn't have to mean just the absolute top of the pyramid leader. It can be anyone who knows how to command and carry out missions.

    And Ultra Magnus would certainly fit that bill.
     
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  3. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    I consider him a leader. Just not a good one.
     
  4. Revoticus

    Revoticus Still a Big Combaticon fan

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    Yes, a commander is still a leader.
     
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  5. NeilJam

    NeilJam Resident Audiophile

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    Right, the key word there is "now." He had more pressing matters to attend to at that moment.
    I don't think there should be any question that he was officially leader, appointed by Optimus. Before and after that he was a high ranking member of the command hierarchy.
     
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  6. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I think all the doubt about him being the “official” leader comes from Optimus Prime own words ……about there being a “true leader” that would one day rise from their ranks

    that instilled doubt
     
  7. Fafnir72

    Fafnir72 Well-Known Member

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    Supreme Leader and Matrix Holder/ Steward and Wielder tend not to be always clear cut.

    Optimus during his G1 TV stint never even mentioned this or intimated his ability to wield it

    Post 1986 Movie, now that's where it goes free for all.

    UM in the JP verse had his carrying the Matrix bestowed upon him the ability post Movie and his "death" under Sixshot to be able to draw/wield the powers of the Matrix.

    He was briefly "Supreme Commander" until Rodimus Convoy and eventually after Fortress took over. Metalhawk and Ginrai became Earth cntingent leader and they even made a big deal ceremonial transfer of power/duties in the manga.

    Ssaber was also supreme commander until Dai Atlas took over.

    Then Skygarry and eventually back to Starconvoy.

    So yup. UM was also a Supreme Commander, albeit a somewhat short stint.
     
  8. Zentropy

    Zentropy Toys > Fiction

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    An Autobot leader? Certainly. The Autobot leader? No.

    Questions like this wouldn’t even come up if not for the asinine concept of the Matrix of Leadership. It really diminishes the significance of genuinely special characters. I regret that it was ever introduced, because it put a low intellectual ceiling on the fiction, in my opinion.
     
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  9. 2fabdad

    2fabdad Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to erase the concept of the matrix for the concept to vanish. It came Hotrod Became Rodimus he's the new Leader. Magnus returns to earth and leads the Autobots on earth. Not writing it into every other story makes more sense.
    it was an overused plot device that keeps showing up dispite it's lack of a new current toy or a reason past choosing the next prime, Revive the dead or give new life to new characters.

    Magnus in the Movie made one bad decision after another... A flawed imperfect version of Optimus... We would get to watch him learn and grow as a leader.
     
  10. Matrixbeast

    Matrixbeast Here comes a thought

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    While I do feel the Matrix did kind of muddle things, I actually feel that, without it, Magnus has a better shot at claiming leadership.
    He's more effective on the field and makes more snap decisions than Rodimus. Whenever I watch episodes featuring Magnus, he really does stand out as the actual leader rather than field/city commander, but because the Matrix says so, Rodimus is the supreme leader.
     
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  11. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    Absolutely he was a leader. He was a good one at that, despite the heavy hanging to the Movie by the fandom.
     
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  12. JazzAlert13

    JazzAlert13 Well-Known Member

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    Yes! He was technically leader of the Autobots in the time between Optimus and Rodimus. There is no reason not to consider him a leader imo.
     
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  13. Easterling Capt

    Easterling Capt I am Vern Schillinger

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    First you need to define what leader you mean.

    Autobot leader = the one that is on the top, the high big boss etc etc.
    Second in command = when big boss not around..this guy takes over.
    Team leader = leader of a special groupe..like Silverbolt is.
    Mission leader = Leader of a special mission..etc etc

    You can define this in such numerous variation..but if we just look at the top leader of the side..Like Optimus is to Megatron anv Galvatron is to Rodimus..Ultra Magnus is NOT in that tier of leadership. Ultra Magnus is more likely the one you put in the rank of second in command. Sure you can debat that it to ocunts as a leader, but that is imo stretching it.

    Above is for G1...
     
  14. Zentropy

    Zentropy Toys > Fiction

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    Exactly. Rather than someone ingesting the super-duper instant power-up, they instead might actually earn leadership. That's precisely what is wrong with the Matrix, and how it is an artificial story-building and character-development crutch. The Movie needed to Optimus out and Rodimus in so Hasbro could sell new toys, and they used the Matrix to short-cut the process. Without that plot gimmick, no one would have ever promoted such an impulsive and inexperienced child to leader. I'm not a fan of Ultra Magnus, but given his backstory, I would have at least accepted his leadership-- without a glorified upgrade chip stuffed in his chest. I'm cool with flawed leaders as long as they've earned it. So, in my mind, Ultra Magnus is a more legitimate leader than Rodimus.

    Another thing to consider is that leadership does not directly equate to rank. Technically, Prowl outranked Ultra Magnus, but never really showed much leadership in G1. Leadership is a behavior, not a stripe on the shoulder nor a gizmo in the chest.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
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  15. Applejacktimus

    Applejacktimus Patron saint of lost causes

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    The way I see it, the earning of Autobot leadership and the passing of the Matrix to continue the line of Primes ought to be functionally seperate, but running parallel. Command of a military such as the Autobots should be earned by those who can inspire others and do the right thing, and the Matrix is only passed down to the next leader because the line of Primes has sided with the Autobots and happened to make their way into the leadership role because the qualities of a Prime are what make a leader.

    The Matrix should be a repository of wisdom, which doesn't upgrade bodies or destroy planetbots or power magical swords or even give its wearer the wisdom it contains. The wisdom inside it ought to be a monument to the Cybertronian capacity for understanding, empathy, forgiveness, gentleness, and love, to prove they aren't self-destructive warmongerers. That's the purpose I wish the Primes and the Matrix had.
     
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  16. Makarov

    Makarov Well-Known Member

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    I think I would rather follow Magnus than Rodimus in the g1 movie, and definitely Magnus over Prime in the WFC netflix series.
     
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  17. jaws

    jaws Well-Known Member

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    No way!
     
  18. Zentropy

    Zentropy Toys > Fiction

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    Absolutely. In the span of one movie, Rodimus went from lying around fishing to leading the Autobots. Sorry, he didn't earn that upgrade, and no amount of imbued wisdom could help him. And WFC Optimus is a hot mess of psychiatric incompetence. I'd readily take the respective Ultra Magnuses in both cases.
     
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  19. Prime Noble

    Prime Noble Well-Known Member

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    I think most of the audio books are on this channel.
     
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  20. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Thank you very much
     
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