Do you accept outdated names and titles that appear on toy packaging as "canon"?

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by Nevermore, Dec 14, 2019.

  1. Nevermore

    Nevermore It's self-perpetuating a parahumanoidarianised!

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    Here's the thing: Sometimes Hasbro plans for toys or entire toylines or sublines to be named one thing, but then their marketing department decides at the eleventh hour to change the name... but not until after at least some quantities of the toys' packaging have already been produced.

    Some examples:

    The first three 1989 Micromaster Patrols (the Air Strike Patrol, the Off Road Patrol and the Race Car Patrol) came in packaging that was still based heavily on the packaging design from previous years, featuring the unique branding "Micro Transformers".
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    But then all the other 1989 Micromasters were released in completely redesigned packaging, featuring an all-new "Transformers" logo and no "Micro Transformers" branding anywhere to be found.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Internationally, it gets even more confusing: Canada and Italy both also got those three early patrols in the same unique "early" packaging design, whereas the United Kingdom got them in the later packaging design, and France and the Netherlands got both versions!
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]



    The Beast Wars hyena was released under the name "Jawbreaker" in the United States, Canada and Latin America.
    [​IMG]

    However, an early working name for the figure had been "Cackle", and in Europe, where the figure was available in two different packaging variants, each of them featuring three different languages, both versions retained the name "Cackle".
    [​IMG]



    Apparently, the red Scout Class Decepticon car from the "Revenge of the Fallen" line was originally intended to be named "Detour", but ultimately, Hasbro released him under the name "Dead End" in the United States.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    However, the official packaging stock photo for the figure, which depicts European packaging, still features the earlier name "Detour".
    [​IMG]

    And indeed, in Europe, he was initially released under the name "Detour". Or rather, the packaging featured a name insert with the name "Detour" on it. Meanwhile, both the back of the packaging and the instruction sheet invariably called him "Dead End".
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Eventually, Hasbro released a running change variant in Europe, featuring a corrected "Dead End" name insert.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]



    In 2009, Hasbro had intended to release redecos of the Energon Superion Maximus (now named simply "Superion") and Bruticus Maximus combiners as Target exclusives under the Universe line. In Singapore and Australia, they were indeed released in Universe packaging.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    However, it appears Target had demanded they be marketed under the then-upcoming movie line instead, which is why in the United States and Canada (were they were exclusively available at Zellers), both sets were sold in completely different "Revenge of the Fallen" packaging.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]



    Right now, it appears Hasbro has decided to change the subline branding for the 2020 continuation of the "Cyberverse" line at the last moment. This results in a situation where toys within the same wave from the same assortment are alternatively branded "Cyberverse: Battle for Cybertron" or "Bumblebee: Cyberverse Adventures". Which one is the outdated earlier name and which one will be the final version remains to be seen.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]



    Now here's my question: Do those outdated names and brandings "exist" as far as you're concerned? I mean, the packaging clearly has been produced and sold in stores. So is "Micro Transformers" really an alternate name for the Micromasters? Are Beast Wars Jawbreaker and Revenge of the Fallen Dead End "really" named "Cackle" and "Detour" in Europe? Are there Universe counterparts of ROTF Superion and Bruticus Maximus? Or are these really just outdated names which weren't caught in time before the toys were shipped to stores, to be considered no less of an "error" than the Cybertron Street Speed Mini-Con Team swapping Backtrack and Oval's names (compared to their Armada predecessors) on both the packaging and in the instructions, or the Target exclusive Beast Hunters: Predacons Rising Abominus giftset swapping around the names of all components except for Blight?
     
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  2. AutobotAvalanche

    AutobotAvalanche Number One in Boogieland Moderator

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    I like the alternate European names because they're usually funny. I suppose they could be aliases or codenames in-universe. The rest of these types of things, take it or leave it.

    Excellent article as always Nevermore. :) 
     
  3. Soundwavelover2004

    Soundwavelover2004 Well-Known Member

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    Cool read but any name i dont mind
     
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  4. ObakaChanTachi

    ObakaChanTachi melancholy is sadness that has taken on lightness

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    Finding canon in toy-related material to me is like trying to save a burning house with a bucket. It could just be my (admitedlly, very blurry) memory of reading bios and stats on the back of Animated and ROTF packages, but half of the time they don't match up with the media they're supposed to represent. Plus, all the Stealth Bumblebees, G1-homage redecoes, and off-screen characters.
     
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  5. DeletedUser_119270

    DeletedUser_119270 Banned

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    While an original name could have a nostalgic ring to it, I will always go with the latter and finalized.

    I did get the Jolly Breaker Prime Abominus, and I saw those incorrect names on the packaging. While it's an error that should be fixed and hindered MISB / MISC, it didn't bother me.
     
  6. Booster Gold

    Booster Gold Accept no imitations

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    I was getting nostalgia feels for the micromasters but then you lost me. However my answer is no.
     
  7. SuperTitanHans

    SuperTitanHans Upgraded TFW2005 Supporter

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    All this stuff is very interesting but if you’re in any way bothered by it (or have to spend time mentally categorizing toy packaging) then you have issues.
     
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  8. iacon45

    iacon45 Missing: One Custom Title

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    I just call it what I want to regardless of the package, but thank you for the article Nevermore. I've always enjoyed giving your stuff a read. It does remind me of Spastic/Overrun a few years ago in the Power Core line. I know that some of the boxes still said Spastic with an Overrun sticker placed over the original name but I can't remember if any fully corrected printed boxes were ever produced. While I don't really like the name Overrun as much, I understand why Spastic had to be changed.
     
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  9. Murasame

    Murasame

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    I had never seen the Micro Transformers packaging. My Race Car Patrol was already in the new design.
     
  10. Inciteful

    Inciteful Hides in the Shadows

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    I look at this as a yes and no issue. I look at the Micro Transformers and Micromasters as the same line with the name change mid production. Name / packaging changes I would look at whether or not the assortment numbers are the same or different.
     
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  11. Gangu Stars

    Gangu Stars Well-Known Member

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    I feel this is a real stretch at trying to make a subject seem far more deep and involved than it really has any need to be. A seconds thought...and gone.
     
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  12. TheWarPathGuy

    TheWarPathGuy As cool as the earth is blue.

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    Yes and no.
    The G1 packaging especially seeing how alot of the descriptions don't even reflect the characters.
     
  13. Lex79

    Lex79 Well-Known Member

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    As an Italian guy, when I first heard here of micromasters I actually had to check if they were the same characters and toys as the Micro Transformers I had as a kid...so yeah, for is definitely canon.
     
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  14. Prime Noble

    Prime Noble Well-Known Member

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    At least it gives you an option. When we got CHUG Tankor and Darkmount, I still called them by their G1 names, Octane and Straxus. I always thought Tankor was a crap name.

    As for Detour/Dead End, there was a different Dead End toy in the movie line so calling this one Detour gave you essentially a different character. Plus his car mode was reminiscent of G1 Detour.

    While I prefer the name Cackle, I do find it interesting that like G1 Jawbreaker, Beast Wars Jawbreaker was also known by a second name, Overbite.

    Plus what about the many G2 toys given different names either side of the Atlantic such as Sizzle/Hot Rod or Manga Ray/Pirhana?

    Or the G1 Decepticon Micromaster patrols being released as Autobots in Japan with different colour schemes on some of them.

    The IDW Beast Wars profile books even gave two profiles for some Beast Wars toys who had different names in Japan such as Apache/Bazooka.

    Personally, I like the options certain cases can give you.
     
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  15. Agent Prime 2814

    Agent Prime 2814 Well-Known Member

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    No. I don't care how many times Hasbro/Takara package the red and black cassette as Rumble. He's FRENZY. ALWAYS WAS ALWAYS WILL BE. He was called Frenzy in the g1 cartoon...so that is his canon. Rumble is BLUE. Just like I don't care if it's a swear word in europe...SLAG IS SLAG...not SLUG....I mean do you want your name after a slimy worm? SLAG IT.
     
  16. fschuler

    fschuler Post Count Inflated With Hot Air TFW2005 Supporter

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    Yes. They exist therefore they are. I find this stuff interesting.
     
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  17. analogue

    analogue 01110111 01100101 01100010 TFW2005 Supporter

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    Character-wise, alternate names don’t really bother me. I have many Laserwaves and a few Shockblasts, but they’re all Shockwaves to me.

    Packaging or line-wise, It doesn’t matter to me. They had a couple variations of packaging for Energon Shockblast, but as long as the toy inside was unchanged, I didn’t bother hunting down the different package variants. It’s what’s inside that counts to me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  18. T-Hybrid

    T-Hybrid Eat. Pray. Lovehammer.

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    Yes. Why wouldn't I? It's no different than "Optimus Prime" and "Convoy."
     
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  19. Max Tower

    Max Tower Well-Known Member

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    1) I consider Micro Transformers a brand description and not a sub-group name so it's a description on the toyline not the in-continuity name for themselves - to themselves they are Micromasters.

    2) I consider Cackle to be called Cackle for a very obvious reason - it's not a name reuse & it's also his intended name. It's the same reason why I call Cybertron Sideways Noisemaze by default. Also a later wave has a Breakdown in it so that gives some credibility to the name use too.

    3) On some level I prefer Detour to Dead End but since they are both name reuses - I'll go with the character design and also the consideration that they look not that unlike Prime Dead End. So as he looks like a Vampire the name Dead End is more appropriate in the Movie Universe at least.

    4) I Own the Universe combiners so I don't tend to see them as Movie toys - as I also own the upgrade kits for them that just cements them even more as a packaging oddity, I guess you can do what you like with them like the Cybertron Moulds in the Walmart Movie line. So No I don't consider them out dated branded I consider them the release they are supposed to be and the American ones are "repacks" under another brand.

    5) I suspect the Scouts have the proper name as they are newer products - they likely just changed it after one wave - perhaps in line with the 3rd season of the cartoon's tag line.

    6) Minicon or Terrorcon names being muddled is 100% something to ignore - I wouldn't even expect somewhere like TFU.info to give that sort of thing the time of day (at best it's worth a foot note that it's a labeling error) - it's simply that 'an error' - like how Siege Transformers have Null Rays as the default on the Instructions it's simply a Mistake.

    Sort of like how some Botbots are shown doing some things they can't actually do - like the spray can's head can't actually close over the face , The Venus Fly Trap Plant can't actually collapse down into Frog mode and the tote-bag's head doesn't come up as far as the stock photos show.
    In those cases i'd be fine with those "errors" carrying over to other materials as they are improvements over the physical objects.

    In addition I actually use some of the Euro G2 Cyberjet wave 2 names as they make more sense than the American ones in some cases. In the case of say Motivator 'Flame' I consider them a different individual to the Japanese Character they resemble too.

    I tend to think more about what a name is supposed to mean when it's a Japanese version of some form of English Words - for example (Cybertron defense Scattershot) is that Galaxy Force Backguird, Backguild, or did they mean it to be Backguard ?

    Is Sky Garry really called "Garry" or is his name actually supposed to be "Sky Carry" instead ?
    Is Black Megatron a distinct individual or not ?
    Should all Purple Megatron toys be automatically considered to be 'Archforce' especially when there is no name on the chest.
    Are we supposed to say Colossus or Clench or Spark or Pyro ?

    Many questions do I have.
     
  20. Aimless Misfire

    Aimless Misfire Banned

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    I didn't even know about this. I only know the stuff released at American retail.