I considered uploading this thread to the movie forum but decided this discussion applies to the franchise as a whole, as for my 2 cents, I lean more towards them needing kibble, but what do each of you think?

 

I think that it should be obvious what their alt form is. I am a Bayverse fan and one of my many issues with the Bayverse movies is that with the Dreads and Sentinel Prime in DotM, they got lazy and started streamlining the characters with overly humanoid shapes so you have no clue what their alt mode are. It gets worse in AoE and TLK. Hound, Crosshairs, Drift, Optimus, etc, there is little to no indication of their vehicle modes. They look like huge metal humans, not alien robots.

To that extent, I think "kibble" to a point is necessary but I guess the true answer is it depends on how much and where and how.

 

No. I am open to designs both with and without kibble, just like I am open to both animal-like, human-like, or alien-like designs, just like I am open to both colorful designs and more grey or dull designs. There should be a variety of designs in Transformers and not just one philosophy.

 

Not exactly kibble, but as was said upper, bots need some parts of their alt mode on their body. I don't think it's matter where exactly, on arms, on legs, on back whatever, they just need it. That problem actually was in G1 already, with Megatron.

 

Just for the sake of it and ends up looking bad and overdone, probably not, but when it adds to the design and looks good, absolutely!

When the figure is very flat, as many cartoonish esthetics are, it ends up with it looking cheap most of the time.

 

I don’t think they “need” kibble but if it ends up adding to the look of the character, then it’s a-ok with me!

 

I definitely want them to look like their alt mode is there, somewhere.

 

Idk what you're talking about with that last bit really. His chest is very clearly the side of the gun, his legs are the handle, his back has the barrel, his fusion cannon is the scope, it's all there

 

Now, when we have 3d models or other art of this character, of course. But in the animation itself you can't see it, at least I can't.

 

Hell yeah. I wouldn't say they need a shit-ton of it (looking at you, shellformers), but I like it when Transformers who can transform (or could, in the case of the Action Masters) have at least a wheel or two indicating what they turn into.

 

Only if it's for show accuracy or it's unclear what they turn into. In my opinion anyway.

 

Strange, weird even

 

There seems to be two distinct definitions of kibble being used in this thread, so I'll define and then answer both.

1 - Kibble - parts of the alt mode that are not incorporated into the robot mode.

So, for this I'm not a fan of kibble. It just clutters the design of the robot mode, and in toy form constantly gets in the way of articulation. I see it as an outright flaw in toy design to just have parts hanging off the robot all over, and of course the more individual parts of kibble a design has the worst it is in my eyes. There is of course a little wiggle room here. If a design uses kibble particularly stylishly, I might actually like it. Back wings are the typical standout here, but even that can be done poorly and end up as 'kibble' in my eyes. So the dividing line between something being part of the robot mode design or being kibble comes down to personal taste and how well it works physically in toy form.

2 - Kibble - parts of the alt mode that remain identifiable in robot mode.

I personally really prefer designs that use this definition of kibble, but I don't see it as completely necessary. Part of the fun with Transformers is that they're multiple different things in one. I really like it when the alt mode directly influences the design and look of the robot. It makes it feel like the alt is really a part of the Cybertronion in question. My personal favorite way to use alt mode kibble like this is to angle, layer, and interconnect the pieces together to create a complex look while still remaining identifiable as alt mode pieces. The old bayverse designs are some of my favorites here, particularly the original bayverse Optimus. I do like diversity in designs, so the occasional more organic look can be fun. I don't prefer the knight optimus look, but I do like that it exists. When it comes to the toys the streamlined organic look does create some real problems, but as long as the engineering is good enough to not end up with definition 1 'kibble', isn't super thick, and still has decent articulation, I'm fine with it. Again, not my preferred option, but I like that a variety of designs exist.

 

Would it be rude if I say that you weird?

 

Many have done so, many have been false

 

Being weird is cool, normal is overrated

 

frfr

 

I'm neither. I'm simply him.

 

I'm chosen one then.

......you weird......

 

For the most part, I agree completely with just about everything here. Personally I don't like the later Bayverse designs in AoE and TLK because seeing giant metal humans doesn't feel like Transformers to me. For that, I might as well have been watching the Iron Giant or Pacific Rim or something. I absolutely love the Bayverse designs in the first three movies, most in the first. It was all new and somewhat original then. Blackout is my all time favorite because of his opening scene, his size, and the fact of the type of helicopter he is (I've always loved helicopters and that series is one of my all time favorites as far as aesthetics). When he's in robot form, you pretty much know exactly what he turns in to. Same with pretty much all of them but Megatron and Frenzy. Megatron simply because he never got a human vehicle alt mode because he didn't "need" one until later.

So in that, yeah, I love the extra flair of the vehicle parts, if we want to differentiate between that and the first meaning of kibble. With that in mind, yeah, I despise excessive kibble in bad designs. My son's Elita One comes to mind, half the car just angles back and looks like stupid wings with wheels. I want to be able to tell what their alt most is by looking at them in robot because of clever integration, not lazy design.