Difference Between 3P and K.O!

Discussion in 'Transformers 3rd Party Discussion' started by TheIronBot, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. TheIronBot

    TheIronBot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Posts:
    1,387
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Location:
    Canada
    Likes:
    +555
    Hi! I was gonna get MP10V (voyager scale MP10) but apparently it is K.O. How is this K.O but other figures are 3P?
     
  2. Rodentus prime

    Rodentus prime Old Git

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Posts:
    7,186
    News Credits:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    332
    Location:
    Hants, UK
    Likes:
    +9,290
    Typically a KO is considered to be a direct copy of an official figure, 3rd Party figures tend to be a copy of the character but with all new engineering/design. In the past KO's were considered to be lesser quality but these resized primes are good quality so it would only make a difference to you if you have a moral problem with it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. ichnach

    ichnach Predacon

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Posts:
    3,109
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +1,913
    We're really going to have this conversation again? o_O 
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. crasher

    crasher Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2015
    Posts:
    215
    Trophy Points:
    97
    Likes:
    +115
    the word K.O sounds so offensive when you have all these upsized, downsized optimus prime and the seekers. we should call em E.T .... enhanced toys
     
  5. TheIronBot

    TheIronBot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Posts:
    1,387
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Location:
    Canada
    Likes:
    +555
    ? I'm confused?
     
  6. z580c

    z580c Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2015
    Posts:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    72
    Likes:
    +31
    3P is a toy made by an unlicensed company who designed and engineered it themselves (aside from using an existing character as inspiration in 99% of cases).

    KO is a toy made by copying another company's design and/or engineering.

    Simples.
     
  7. harrismonkey

    harrismonkey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Posts:
    8,918
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +5,522
    Some recent examples (possibly including this) are beginning to blur that line. But when you get right down to it, when the majority of the design work is taken from an existing toy it's pretty much a KO.
     
  8. z580c

    z580c Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2015
    Posts:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    72
    Likes:
    +31
    You can even get KOs of 3Ps if you really want to go down the rabbit hole
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Snaku

    Snaku Primes Don't Party

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Posts:
    15,879
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    387
    Likes:
    +46,098
    Ebay:
    And then you've got the KOs where they've improved on the original and re-engineered them to have more complicated and better transformations and better deco and paint apps to the point that they're somewhere between a straight up KO and a third party, like the Wei Jiang movie Hound and evasion Optimus.
     
  10. mikeszekely

    mikeszekely Not Pessimus Prime

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2016
    Posts:
    7,958
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Likes:
    +15,751
    Ebay:
    3P toys are based on Hasbro's IP; that is, they're clearly meant to be Transformers characters, even if the box says Despotron and not Megatron. However, the design and engineering of the toys are original.

    A KO is a copy of an existing figure. Usually it's a Hasbro figure, like the Takasa Tony MP cars, but 3P figures can get KOed too (like the Wu Kong KO of Warbotron Bruticus, or for a KO of a KO, Machine Boy's KO of Wu Kong's KO Bruticus).

    While KOs have traditionally been lower-quality 1-1 copies, there's a more recent trend of producing high quality KOs with some improvement in the original figures (like replacing the plastic tires on MP Tracks with rubber ones) or changing the size, usually making them bigger.

    Anyway, yes, MP10-V is a KO of HasTak's MP-10. Don't let that scare you off the figure, though. It's a high-quality Voyager-sized version with more diecast, alternate heads, and more paint than the original. The proportions have also been tweaked so he's got longer legs and his arms aren't so gangly. He's easily my favorite figure this year.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. robh

    robh Decepticon

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2015
    Posts:
    3,597
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Likes:
    +1,846
    I'll cut you some slack and assume you're new to this side of the house. KOs generally copy toys, and are more or less replicas of the toys they KO. 3P usually take an existing character and create their own toy based off the character.

    As Harrismonkey said lines are blurring a bit because some KO'ers do some engineering to the toys they copy such as downsizing, upsizing, or improving articulation, etc.
     
  12. Starganderfish

    Starganderfish Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Posts:
    7,756
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Location:
    Australia
    Likes:
    +11,923
    That line has now started to blur even more with companies doing more substantial changes and improvements to figures. Takasa Tony Tracks with rubber tyres is clearly a KO. Quakeblast however, which is larger, differing surface details and proportions and improved surface paint, but maintaining the same basic engineering, is a blurred line between 3P and KO.
    And then you have the coneheads. Igear took the MP-03 mould and improved the posing and stability (before Takara did the same with MP-11) and then took it a step further and turned Seekers into Coneheads. And now BB7 and KBB are doing even more changes to iGears and/or Takara's to make their own take again. How do you define a figure that is an altered version of iGears, which is an altered version of Takara's? It's a KO of a KO?
    We almost need to start developing some new terminology to describe these new types of figures!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Megatronus27

    Megatronus27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Posts:
    3,484
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Location:
    Detroit
    Likes:
    +1,416
    RO -Ripoff?

    PE -Pre-Engineered?

    Lol
     
  14. Starganderfish

    Starganderfish Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Posts:
    7,756
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Location:
    Australia
    Likes:
    +11,923
    LOL. Perfect Effect may object to you stealing their initials for the second option. I do kind of like RO Rip-off, though it's not the most impartial term.;) 
     
  15. peddlerofwine

    peddlerofwine Starscream's Robot Gun

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2015
    Posts:
    3,288
    Trophy Points:
    267
    Likes:
    +5,655
    Get the voyager KO MP-10 if you like him. He's a neat little guy! KO, Smay-O, it doesn't really matter.
     
  16. duttry98

    duttry98 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2014
    Posts:
    1,201
    Trophy Points:
    147
    Likes:
    +53
    Ebay:
    It's crazy how things are now. KO's, 3P's, KO's of 3P's, upsized, downsized, oversized, etc... It really is a great time to be an enthusiast!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. MrAngry

    MrAngry Proud to be Geek!

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Posts:
    610
    Trophy Points:
    147
    Location:
    Plover, WI
    Likes:
    +236

    Simple answer. Quit caring and buy the figure because its AWESOME!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Tontus314

    Tontus314 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Posts:
    2,375
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Memphis
    Likes:
    +4,088
    Ebay:
    As far as I'm concerned, MP10 is an oversized KO of MP10v. Of course that means that Has/Tak has access to time travel, but I'm OK with that to make my statement work. Then again the time travel makes sense when you look at the current 1970s style Star Wars figures they're making. Hmm.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. LazyAza

    LazyAza MMC color go brrrr

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2012
    Posts:
    16,253
    News Credits:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    347
    Location:
    Australia
    Likes:
    +18,332
    Twitter:
    A KO is when a company took someone elses mold (whether it be an official or unofficial is irrelevant) and reproduced it and slapped their name on it. Some have variations on the original, some are exact reproductions, some are bigger or smaller, some have new parts of features. Some are heavily cost cut and way cheaper and shittier, some are actually advanced over the original significantly, though the latter is rare still. Point is they can't take credit for what they made since the original mold was someone elses work. People have different moral standings on these, they're technically a form of "art theft" but usually get justified simply by being different enough to the original that they offer something it doesn't.

    Third Party products are exactly the same as official products produced by hasbro and takara; original creations made from scratch without using anyone elses work directly. Just like official products they reference official media all the time and will feature design traits established by other figures but are never 1-1 copies of any pre existing thing unless that pre existing thing was made by the same company.
     
  20. Magnahide

    Magnahide Maximal Commander

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2014
    Posts:
    682
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Location:
    United States
    Likes:
    +296
    - Knockoffs (aka KO) are generally considered to be toys that either the company stole the molds or illegally utilized them (What sometimes happens in various industries is that Company A designs the molds and contracts a factory in China to make the product, then Company B goes directly to the factory and offers them pay them to make toys for them using Company A's molds, the molds that Company A designed and have the exclusive legal rights to use), or they reverse-engineered the toys and possibly undersized or oversized them. Sometimes these companies make sloppy toys that don't exactly resemble the real thing (sometimes they're kind of ugly, weird, or don't make sense because the manufacturer doesn't know anything about the actual character they're ripping off) and other times they try their best to deceive you into thinking it's the real deal. The quality is often sub-par because they try to sell these things as cheap as possible and don't want to (and probably can't) spend money on good engineers/designers and production processes. These companies are often (if not always) based in China, and they might have poor translations on the packaging. You might see this stuff in stores that typically sell extremely cheap, low quality products, or basically anywhere on the Internet. It's pretty easy to sell "convincing" knockoffs on the Web, however, because the buyer isn't seeing the product in person before buying. Cheap transforming robot toys that aren't necessarily based on specific Transformers characters are also usually considered "knockoffs" of the Transformers brand itself.

    - Third party typically refers to toys based on Transformers characters but are completely original designs, engineered new from the ground up. This also refers to companies who make brand new accessories or parts for actual Hasbro/Takara Transformers. There are also companies that make cheap knockoffs of third party products too.

    - There are also these "in-between" companies popping up, like Wei Jiang, who reverse-engineer the designs, change the size, but actually change elements of the design to improve the toy. These companies also seem to be well-aware of the fiction the characters come from, and what the fans of that character would want him to look like and what types of accessories he should have. Wei Jiang's M01 Commander is a Prime example.