Did the g2 comic book swarm become the beast wars swarm?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Refletor3, May 28, 2020.

  1. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    Based on your own observations and reasoning. Do you think the swarm is the vok? Why or why not?
     
  2. Insurgent

    Insurgent Big Red Fire Snorting Dragon

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    One of the show creators wanted them to be. One of them didn't. Me? I view BW as going from the cartoon, which means no swarm. Also, if they are a different species, it just makes the universe bigger and more populated.
     
  3. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    And that’s where the irony comes in

    The one that didn’t is the one That wrote the comic book story that finally connected the swarm to the Vok
     
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  4. Insurgent

    Insurgent Big Red Fire Snorting Dragon

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    Seriously? Hahaha, I didn't know that!
     
  5. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's Zvil!"

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    Except the comicbook is out of continuity. So the Swarm is the Vok only in that comic.
     
  6. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I would like to know why you think it’s not in continuity

    they doubled down by sighting the origin in the Beast Wars sourcebook
     
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  7. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's Zvil!"

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    Again, it's its own continuity, which is divergent. Just like you can say Regeneration One is definitive Marvel continuity but it's actually a divergence. The Sourcebook is based on the divergent comic continuity. I can see where one would be tempted to use it as multi-continuous in a vacuum, though. But if we're willing to accept that Transformers exists in a multiverse of multiple continuities, then IDW's Beast Wars is just one of several divergent continuities.

    Outside of IDW, the Vok are pretty much a "whatever" species. We've had many of those throughout Transformers, so technically that's nothing new. But generally, the other aliens are more malicious. The Vok are unique in that they appear to have an agenda that never quite fully materializes, leaving them with a larger question mark than others.
     
  8. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Again I understand that’s your opinion ,but you’re not telling me why.

    I haven’t read every comic known but from what I have read I see no reason to believe the continuity must be Divergent

    The story in question was written with the intent it be part of the cartoon continuity and I haven’t read anything in the nook itself That precludes that intent

    Re-Gen isint really the fairest comparison because there Exists a previous Marvel continuation to contend with

    While I see enough to consider Beast wars Divergent from both the main g1 continuities, I have yet to see anything ,Big enough, to consider Prime evil dawn as Divergent
     
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  9. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's Zvil!"

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    Any continuation past the cartoon is divergent. Another example is the DC Star Trek comics of the 80's. It continues the adventures of the Enterprise post Wrath of Khan.
    Non-Non Canon: The Strange Case of the 1980s DC Star Trek Comic Books
     
  10. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Even Star treks polices on what’s in continuity has changed over the years,

    comics aren’t in continuity .....unless they are like the countdown books were originally
    The animated series wasn’t in continuity , untill they made it in continuity
    novels wrent in continuity , except some of the Voyager novels...... untill they changed their minds again

    And the bottom line is this isn’t a Star Trek,

    Again I’m asking you if you have any reason in particular to see this as a diversion other than these generalizations
     
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  11. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's Zvil!"

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    You just nailed it. Star Trek is stuck with a ton of divergent continuities. From novels to cartoons to comics.
    No, it's Transformers. But the principle remains the same - and I'd even say it's on a higher magnitude here. Every time you try to continue a continuity, you ultimately create a divergence. IDW's Beast Wars is a divergence from the source material i.e. the cartoon. As far the cartoon (considered sacrosanct) is concerned, none of it happened. But as far as IDW goes, it did. Therefore it applies only to IDW's divergent continuity.
    Beast Wars continuity - Transformers Wiki

    And no, I'm not going to endlessly argue with you. You're a nice person but you have a penchant for circular argument.
     
  12. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    It doesn’t change the fact that Star Trek is changed it’s policy constantly admitting and subtracting things from what’s considered continuity
    There is principle when they continue to change positions when it suits them

    taking that argument to its ultimate level, trying to continue an early story arc later in a series can be viewed the same way, creators would never be able to continue or finish a series

    and where’s he logic in that?

    by you maybe
    Even maybe by other fans

    But nothing you have said here do far would lead me to think that must be the case
    I’m still seeing more generalizations and nothing to explain the “why” it must be viewed in that way

    I think you’re a nice person too and I’m not trying to get into another circular arguments but I’m looking for specific reasons as to why it should be viewed that way

    something(s) that just don’t fit in any way , some major point of Divergence , like the many that can be found between the marvel g1 and the Sunbow g1

    and I’m not finding anything like that between Primevil Dawn and the Beast Wars show

    the book was written by one of the show’s primary creators , it was written with the intend that it be viewed as a direct continuation and made the connection between the Vok and the swarm that the other shows primary creator wanted

    There was a time that any series continues in a different medium, I would’ve Considered a parallel story.......But as I matured I have realize that that’s just too strict and adherence, And that any such work should be viewed And judged on its own merits

    And the most important would be .....does it fit
    And I see no reason why primeval Dawn doesn’t........
     
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  13. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's Zvil!"

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    There are many things that fit. 3H and Fun Pub continuities fit. The Beast Wars Transmetals video games fit. But do the divergent continuities fit each other? Questionably at their best, hardly at their worst. It doesn't matter if one of the original showrunners wrote a divergent continuity. Anything within the divergence is sacrosanct to itself but it's not sacrosanct to the source material.

    The fact you are judging something indicates you are creating an opinion. This is one instance where opinion is fine because the Vok can be anything you want them to be...but the State of Play within the fandom, according to TFWiki, is that IDW - and the Vok being the Swarm - is a divergent continuity canonically.
     
  14. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    That you are calling it divergent is just as much an opinion,as well as anything of that nature posted at Tfwiki because it’s based on “the state of play” of fans

    If the writer intended to tell a Divergent story (Regeneration) i could see your point, But I see no reason to consider a Story a Divergent continuity simply because it was produced in a different format
     
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  15. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's Zvil!"

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    BTW, the IDW series was written by Simon Furman - who had little to do with Beast Wars other than writing a single episode. But he WAS the creator of The Swarm...so naturally, he wanted to swing the continuity in a direction that's favorable to his own creation.
     
  16. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    I don't disagree with you but that's not exactly good evidence. :lol 
     
  17. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    It was supplementary lol
    The bulk of my conversation was about primeval dawn written by Bob, not the IDW series

    it’s my understanding that Simon and Bob struck up a friendship When Simon was consulting for them with Beast Wars, That could’ve come in to play in Bob’s decision To use the swan as the backstory for the Vok in those comics.......But I really don’t see how that comes in as a factor for this conversation
     
  18. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's Zvil!"

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    3H material is about as divergent as anything. Bob didn't even finish the story...it was primarily written by Furman. So that goes back to my previous statements.
     
  19. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    “About as divergent“.......No disrespect but do you see how arbitrary that sounds?It’s pretty much like saying “because I said so”,

    I’ll take the words of the creator and the stamp of approval of Hasbro over public opinion, as long as the work fits about as much as other works still considered in continuity
     
  20. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's Zvil!"

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    Ok, have fun.
     
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