DEFORMATION SPACE DS-001 Crimson Wings(G1 MP Starscream)

Discussion in 'Transformers 3rd Party Discussion' started by williammmw, Jun 10, 2021.

  1. Nova Maximus

    Nova Maximus Well-Known Member

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    Replace TT with NA with some MT sprinkled in and you'd be correct.
     
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  2. gibdozer

    gibdozer Love Gun

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    Probably less than 1/2 the price with better articulation and arguably better aesthetics. An MP seeker mold is a money printing machine, all the colors of the rainbow. I think it's about the most intelligent move any "new" 3P could make.

    I agree with everything you said but this. I love the look and feel of the MP11 mold. It's very toyetic almost the Deception equivalent of the Datsun mold. I actually sold off my Maketoys in favor of MP-11. Not that it's better, objectively it isn't, but I don't think "terrible" is a fair assessment.
     
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  3. octobotimus

    octobotimus Anti-hype man

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    For the last time, it's not a KO of mp-52.
     
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  4. franpincho

    franpincho unapologetic king

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    I REALLY doubt that but if you say so, more power to ya.
     
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  5. Hoffman

    Hoffman Well-Known Member

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    Not 1:1, but clearly took numerous design elements from MP-52. I thought this was put to rest a while ago.
     
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  6. octobotimus

    octobotimus Anti-hype man

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    It was, when people realized both figures are inspired by the same design from the same 35 year old cartoon.
     
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  7. mlgpapalouie

    mlgpapalouie The King of Bad Luck

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    all they gotta do to have better articulation is have a waist swivel
     
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  8. Hoffman

    Hoffman Well-Known Member

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    OK, whatever. Not going to keep arguing, I have no horse in this race. But there have been numerous Starscreams over the years, and they've never had such similar design lines. We've seen all sorts of shapes and sizes of legs, feet, crotches, arms, etc., but somehow this one somehow happened to do them in the same shape as the MP figure? This is quite clearly not an independent interpretation of Starscream. It borrows HEAVILY aesthetically from MP-52.

    All this reminds me of the people who insist that Quakeblast wasn't a copy of Quakewave, when it quite clearly was to anybody who handled both.

    But like I said, whatever. Believe what you want to believe, I'll just try to steer clear of this thread from now on.
     
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  9. octobotimus

    octobotimus Anti-hype man

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    Except those two shockwaves transform identically.... this figure will transform completely differently.... I don’t see anything outside of similar shaping (because it’s starscream) being anywhere near the same...

    I mean come on. It’s like claiming TE-01 is a copy of MP-44
    2470B01B-171E-40D5-91EF-6531D9BB09D0.jpeg
    8FDEC0BD-C7FD-47CD-9B7B-B28A3FFADF32.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
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  10. Shin Densetsu

    Shin Densetsu I WILL DESTROY YOU Super Mod

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    I would’ve much rather they sized this down to Earthrise voyager size to take on Earthrise Starscream and quickly retool it into Coneheads to provide fans with a much easier alternative to the Earthrise Coneheads which became a PITA to track down. I don’t think this can take on MP-52 but size it down to a voyager and it pretty much reigns supreme against Earthrise Starscream. It has all the things I wish Earthscream had and looks better.

    Misdirected opportunity here.
     
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  11. e prime

    e prime Chosen by the matrix

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    Agreed
     
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  12. Atomic Tofu

    Atomic Tofu Well-Known Member

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    Visually DS 001 looks to crush MP52, but that's just visually. It will be really down to construction, BUT again, if the price is right who knows. Just looking at little things (might be major to others) like the cockpit...and aside from the entirety of the backside...just looking at the back of the knee and DS looks great. To ME, the only thing MP52 has that might be superior is the huge blue feet. Some might like that it is indeed very cartoony.
     
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  13. cultofkraken

    cultofkraken Cybertronian Metalhead

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    I’ve decided to drop my MP 52 order and go with this. Something about this is just so much more aesthetically appealing to me. MP52 even with all the reviews out it just looks off. Idk why it’s just not jiving with how I see Starscream.
     
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  14. Subotnik

    Subotnik Please Stand By.

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    To me, MP-52 looks like the fat Elvis version of Starscream. He looks bloated and past his prime but still trying to squeeze into that same old spandex jumpsuit. He’s still undeniably Starscream, just not the Starscream I was hoping to see.

    The DS version is much more like what I want, although I’ll probably end up getting both anyway.
     
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  15. Jersey_Steel

    Jersey_Steel Well-Known Member

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    Agree, I don't know how anyone can say this is a KO of the official. It obviously transforms differently and has better aesthetics. The only similarity is that they both look like Starscream jumping out of the cartoon.
     
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  16. gibdozer

    gibdozer Love Gun

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    images.png

    Makes me think of this guy for some reason.
     
  17. Christiano

    Christiano Banned

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    ^^^ Pretty much the perfect response.

    When everything is cartoon-accurate to the same cartoon, there are likely to be similarities.

    I see a lot of people dancing around the fact that there seem to be quite a few QC reports about MP-52 by talking about intangible qualities like aesthetics and intellectual property rather than just stating the obvious: odds are good that DS-001 will probably have an issue too.

    It just won’t have the same price-tag. Nobody on the planet would be forgiving another manufacturer right now with this price-tag attached. Takara will probably fix it. But that has never stopped the pessimists before.
     
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  18. Liampope

    Liampope Well-Known Member

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    @Hoffman is right though. It's been pointed out clearly enough before. Nobody in this thread has claimed it's a KO, or that it copies TT's engineering design. You know what he means - they copied TT's bot mode design, proportions, sculpt almost exactly, except a few minor aesthetic improvements, and of course much larger engineering-driven changes apparent in the back and side views.

    Here you go again...
    Scream2.png

    Move the arms and that one leg into the same position and 99% of that matches up precisely! That does not happen by coincidence in independent efforts to translate the vague 2D animation guides into fully realised 3D geometry. In that task you are making a ton of creative design decisions - you aren't literally given all the dimensions in the 2d guides! It simply being G1 Starscream doesn't lead you to exactly this 3D model. You have to decide on the exact shapes, proportions and details you will use. If you compare them, the MP52/DS bot design is very different from the animation model in shapes and proportions of pretty much every feature, yet MP-52 and DS are almost identical. Hmmm.

    The process of translating the 2D guides into a 3D is no exact science - the result is an interpretation. Genuinely independent interpretations will always inevitably be pretty different. For example the height of the crotch will be a bit different, the exact size, shape and tapers/bevels of the arm blocks will be a bit different, the curves of the legs will be a bit different, the angles of all the planes making up the torso intake sections will all be a bit different, and so on for hundreds of design decisions on defining every point and line in 3D space. Independent interpretations of 'G1 Starscream' get you this kind of variation...
    scream.png

    If you would find identical views and overlay these, almost nothing would match up exactly. Similar, but not the same! Only when one copies another can you literally put one on top of the other and find that 99% of all geometry points match up precisely as in the above overlay. It's beyond any reasonable doubt that DS used TT's CAD image.

    But like I said before I don't care what they did, and I'm not bashing the figure for it, so no need to enter denial or defence. It is what it is. I'm on their side and want this to happen - it's precisely because this matches MP-52's design so closely, with some improvements also (95% crotch rescale, thickened thighs, reduced 'beer gut'), that I would get multiple repaints of this to go with MP-52 based OG Seekers. I'd never want, for example, Meteor repaints hanging with these guys, but that's just my preference for mould mates to match (unless they differed in the toon due to the S1 vs S2 design philosophy change - e.g. Trailbreaker vs Hoist). So bring this on.
     
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  19. Christiano

    Christiano Banned

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    I think that apart from the new head sculpt and jet boosters on his feet, he looks as much like Meteor, if not more. The entire back of the figure and chest do anyhow.

    The notion that they did much more than try to replicate the cartoon-aesthetic of a figure which isn’t even in-hand yet is a bit hard to believe.
     
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  20. Liampope

    Liampope Well-Known Member

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    They didnt have the figure but they did have Takara's MP-52 CAD images - published in Figure King only shortly after a new MP Starscream was announced. That's what the overlay above is - Takara's MP-52 CAD image overlayed on top of DS's figure! And with 99% of it matching up point to point. If you tried to overlay Meteor on top of DS, almost nothing would match up exactly.

    Again, not saying they copied any engineering - only bot mode design. The completely different engineering, inspired more by New Age Lucifer means how things fold up on the back are very different, so the differences are more apparent on back and side views of course. But I totally stand by that they copied the bot sculpt - the overlay I did just couldn't match like that if they didnt. 'It's because it's G1 Starscream' doesn't cut it.

    But see what you want to see and believe what you want to believe. Doesn't matter - it's all good as long as the closeness hasn't got lawyers sniffing around and this comes out!
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
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