DEFORMATION SPACE DS-001 Crimson Wings(G1 MP Starscream)

Discussion in 'Transformers 3rd Party Discussion' started by williammmw, Jun 10, 2021.

  1. Liampope

    Liampope Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree. I dont care either. Just saying what I see, but some, not yourself, have been a bit triggered by the idea, and well you know how it is when someone on the internet says you're wrong! I'm gonna absolutely double down with the detailed analysis with evidence. :)  I'm glad they are so close to identical - I can pick up TT's big three and at least three other repaints of this, if they make them, and they will match perfectly. Because the bot sculpts literally do match almost perfectly.

    That's not really the case. With a car yes. Cars already exist in the real world and have unambiguous dimensions. But there's actually a lot of creative license required to translate the few wonky 2d animation model views into real 3d detailed geometry. And in the complete history of different companies making the same character we always get very different artistic interpretations when it comes to anatomical structure, shapes, proportions and the detail geometry (i.e. the subtle curves, tapers, bevels). For example: Meteor vs. MP-52. That is, except in this case, where two interpretations are mysteriously 99% identical, that just happens to be the same time CAD images were released early on in the development of one of them!

    I dont disagree on the side profile, although I dont think MP-52 is bad in hand (or at least my virtual hand he has been in since I made my 3d model). I also like using a big section of the real canopy just with the small fake pieces at the top and bottom as needed to change the size and shape. I like that much more than the complete fake canopy and the impact that has on TT's alt mode.

    I'ma have to disagree on the holy toon models. Toon accurate isn't everyone's cup of tea i totally understand, but there's a lot that went into those models. Not so much the show itself some of the time. They were not low bar for their time. If you are interested and bored for an hour+ watch this from about 12 mins to 1:20. Originally linked by @Deruji - a real traditional animator drawing and breaking down Starscream's animation model. He has a generally very high opinion of it...

     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
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  2. maxxzander

    maxxzander Well-Known Member

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    Looks like upscale of Na screamer with some tweaks... especially those legs part ..
     
  3. timcourtois

    timcourtois Well-Known Member

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    Great thoughts. This was really interesting to read, and it sounds to me like you're spot on.
     
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  4. Zentropy

    Zentropy Toys > Fiction

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    Again, I completely respect your logical argument, even if I disagree with your perspective. I truly don't see this any differently than I stated in my Hot Wheels / Matchbox analogy. I don't think the Maketoys Meteor comparison is relevant, because that company has a strong history of stylizing G1 characters. They don't hesitate to add their own design elements as long as it homages the original. However, if Fanstoys made a Starscream, then perhaps we'd be talking apples to apples. FT seemed to embrace the pure toon aesthetic even before TT switched to those rails in the MP line. But again, it's really a moot point. Even though you and I see these comparisons differently, neither of us really cares about the similarities between the MP and DS Starscreams. I'm surprised to hear anyone does.

    As for my criticism of the Sunbow animations, I wasn't trying to diminish their significance for their time. I thoroughly enjoyed the cartoon when I was a kid, and while I still have a certain nostalgic fondness for it, it is not very good by modern animation standards. While Kohara did an admirable job of taking oddly-shaped robot toys and giving them heroic humanoid proportions, Floro Dery then removed the more interesting details, sterilizing and homogenizing the models for production. The silhouettes are so similar (the designs were almost formulaic in the way they were proportioned) that without color, there's little to differentiate one character from another in many cases.

    So when I say it's a low artistic bar, I mean that I feel modern toon-centric MP/3P figures are self-limited to the restrictions of 20th-century cartoonists who were working in a time crunch and on a tight budget. The "creative license" that you suggest is applied to convert "wonky animation models" is little more than a mathematical manipulation. It requires good engineering more than artistic skill. MP-52 and the DS figure demonstrate imitation and translation, not imagination and creation. It doesn't diminish the engineering wizardry that's happening in these figures-- hardly! But it puts in perspective how truly stagnant the current MP line (and its direct competition) is in terms of design. To me, MP-52 is boring. Been there, done that, and in nineteen-eighty-friggin-four. Once the perfect animation-correct figure is achieved, what then?
     
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  5. mciver977

    mciver977 He'll rip out your optics.

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    I really hope Deformation/TE actually give us Seekers in new colours and not the usual 3 (or amendments for 3 more coneheads) i'm crying out for either the purple troop builders or even Hotlink el al, even black Starscream, G2 repaints ....would be great...
     
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  6. RoDu

    RoDu Well-Known Member

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    Is there a final price for this?
     
  7. Liampope

    Liampope Well-Known Member

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    No but we're all hoping FT haven't been passing the crack pipe around. But apparently XTB already tried a little bit and liked it. Hopefully TE/DS are clean.
     
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  8. Alph

    Alph Well-Known Member

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    Then you figure out ways to make it easier and more fun to transform without reducing accuracy.
     
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  9. Zentropy

    Zentropy Toys > Fiction

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    Exactly that. Because artistically, it’s at a dead end.
     
  10. Prime135

    Prime135 Jill Rhyme the science Prime

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    I do not know where this company came from, but their designs are elegant in a way we have not seen officially for some time, while still managing to be perfectly cartoon accurate. I am impressed to say the least.

    Do we have alt mode shots yet?
     
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  11. PadForce

    PadForce Well-Known Member

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    XTB cratered their own market by doing so alongside QE failures. Hopefully TE have that in mind given the Mirage issues.
     
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  12. Atomic Tofu

    Atomic Tofu Well-Known Member

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    All signs and other comments point to TE/BMB. So good and bad in a few ways ;) 
     
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  13. Alph

    Alph Well-Known Member

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    Well I guess it's all about whether you're primarily in it for the art or the engineering.


    For me, one of the big appeals of show accuracy, especially accuracy to TF designs that seem impossible in a real 3D space, is that it sets very strict, narrow boundaries to work within, and the beauty is in seeing how designers come up with ingenius ways to overcome that challenge.

    That isn't to say I have no love for more art focused designs. I'll gladly pay CHUG prices for characters with more simplistic transformations and designs that express the designer's artistic sensibilities. But for the hundreds of dollars I spend on an MP? You'd better give me that accuracy and wow me by achieving the impossible.
     
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  14. Zentropy

    Zentropy Toys > Fiction

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    I think alt mode images are a must, especially with all the comparison being given with MP-52. I think it's difficult with the Seekers to achieve realistic or cartoon-accurate undersides of the jet. They typically end up looking like collapsed robot torsos/legs. MP-52's definitely looks like robot kibble, as does Maketoys Meteor's. MP-11's hid it somewhat better because the chest itself transformed quite a bit. I can't quite tell how this one might transform, but I suspect it'll be comprised of obvious robot parts.
     
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  15. Alph

    Alph Well-Known Member

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    The biggest failing of MP-52's alt mode isn't that its underside looks like collapsed robot parts, it's that it doesn't collapse the parts evenly.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Prime135

    Prime135 Jill Rhyme the science Prime

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    hmmmm intriguing.....
     
  17. gibdozer

    gibdozer Love Gun

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    This is the 1st time I've seen this full profile alt image. That really just looks terrible to me. I don't understand, where is the payoff for all the sacrifices the official makes? Maybe it's because I'm not a toon accuracy Seeker? Takara is better than their recently releases.

    I have the MP 36 mold and while he's not my favorite MP Megs aethetically, he's still a marvel of toy engineering. Did they fire the team that made that, or just hamstring the budgets?
     
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  18. Zentropy

    Zentropy Toys > Fiction

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    I'm in it for both, I suppose. I love creatively elegant transformations, but I prefer ones that try to utilize the alt mode parts, not hide them. Toon-accurate designs tend to do the latter, with lots of panels to hide stuff, and faux parts designed to appear like something they wouldn't be in real life. They basically turn themselves inside-out in a display of complex plastic origami, and it never seems satisfying to me-- especially when I don't personally place much merit in the spartan robot mode that is achieved.

    Instead of paying CHUG prices for simple transformations of more artistic expressions, I'd prefer paying MP prices for something more complex and well-finished, but which creatively uses the alt mode elements rather than hiding them. Dream Star Toys is developing a realistic set of Aerialbot figures that look stunningly detailed and obviously homage the G1 characters. They are anything but cartoon- (or toy-) accurate, but look fantastic IMO, and are exactly the aesthetic I like when I'm paying MP prices. If they made the original Seeker trio in a similar design, I'd happy pre-order.
     
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  19. PadForce

    PadForce Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the undercarriage of 52 is what stopped me shelling out for it. Its just so visible and ugly, would never be happy knowing id paid that much.
     
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  20. David Hingtgen

    David Hingtgen Chromaticon

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    Made worse by the fact that the F-15 has a very "sleek and trim" belly, even among fighter jets:
    [​IMG]
     
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