“You exaggerate”

kissing his ass the whole time?
Issue 6: How can he be kissing his ass if he shot Shockwave in the back and fought him?

Issue 7: he only had 1 line of dialog with Shockwave the entire issue, Shockwave communicates with Ark and tells Megatron to get Optimus head ready and Megatron says “yes commander” or words to that effect

hardly kissing ass

Issue 8: one could argue he kissed some ass here, although I don’t think kissing ass includes plotting to stab Shockwave in the back, but I won’t argue with you on this point in this issue

But it certainly was not the whole time from issue 6 to 8, and again, he was still injured and not at 100%.Why would he want to try and make the same mistake again?Hes smarter then that, he knew he needed to be fully healed, at full power to attack Shockwave again

Which is why he plotted with Ratchet, even though he didn’t expect Ratchet could pull it off.

Good to know we can agree on one thing, I have always felt they were relative to size as well, not to mention also being relative when it comes to alt modes in speed, example there’s no way Blurr could be faster then any Jet

My point wasn’t in saying a guy like Brawn could take a combiner, but in saying that trying to use the numbers in each category and add them up to make some grand total to make a comparison to an other character in Inherently flawed because.....

.....the ability to tape a black hole to created Weaponized anti-mater should rank Megatrons fire power rating far more above only 1 notch above a 9

Not only are the tech specs ranking relative in certain categories, but they are also limited by a “1 thru 10” scoring when it’s so obvious that some characters deserve much more then a 10 in certain areas

Here’s a Hypothetical Preceptor had an intelligence ranking of 10, now if they had created a tech spec for “Super intelligence“ Grimlock a tech spec his intelligence would have only been ranked at 10........And we both know he was a lot smarter at that point

Come on dude that is such a poor comparison, you could do better than that lol

Mike might not have been at his best, But he wasn’t just off the operating table. Megatron had barely survived survived a severe Poisoning and injuries from not only the battle of the ARK but Shockwave blast that took knocked out everyone else

That’s far more then “not at his best”

Shockwave only “won” as easily as he did because of the particular set of circumstances that I doubt would be in place under the original posters Query

Sure Shockwave could have killed him, it’s easy to kill a severely injured opponent that can’t really put up much of a fight, that he didn’t is one of the reasons why I like the character, but the circumstances cannot be overlooked or denied and the fact is under the particular circumstances that was barely a fight, As I said several times it was the equivalent of fighting a guy just out of surgery and that is just not a win

 

Again he wasn't too injured to beat all the Dinobots to a pulp with his bare hands though was he? Yes, Megatron is smarter than trying to take Shockwave on head to head. Do you think he would bide his time and grovel to Starscream like that? Not a chance, Megs recognized Shockwave for the threat he was.

But Megatron and Shockwave are relatively the same size, released at nearly the same time, with incredibly similar alt modes. The original tech spec values are pretty relevant information here.

That's hardly his default setting, but even so Shockwave is no slouch in firepower. He can shoot deathrays from the entire electromagnetic spectrum and even fuel himself with nuclear energy. Not as dramatic as a black hole but still highly effective.

I'm not engaging in cross continuity hypotheticals. Let's keep it to the current hypothetical argument. My imaginary robot kicked your imaginary robots ass. The tech specs bear out that Shockwave is a legitimate threat to Megatron, and the Marvel continuity Shockwave did defeat him to become Deception leader.

He seemed pretty frisky for a bot "just out of surgery". After he was healed up Shockwave even told him he calculated high % chance he would have to destroy Megatron eventually. Not only was Megs sheepish about fighting him again Shockwave was supremely confident that the outcome would be the same.

 

Time heals all wounds, again how much time passes between the stories is hard to calculate but comparing his condition at the end of issue number 8 to how he might have been an issue 7 it’s pretty ludicrous

And that he defeated the Dinobots is hardly a measuring stick for his level of recovery, it’s not like he chose to enter into that combat willingly, he was set up, he didn’t have a choice.Winning might have been more luck then skill and strength

For all we know, if Ratchet has not contacted him and told him that Shockwave was defeated he might have been ready to act by the next issue

Also, I always felt the story implied Shockwave was more powerful then the 5 Dinobots combined

.... in the condition he was in.

After all, if he was truly smarter then to try and take Shockwave head to head as you claim he wouldn’t have tried in issue 6

You know, It’s always seem to me that the character of Megatron is one of the few characters that wasn’t all to different between the comic books and the cartoon.I’m sure you could point out a few things but it’s still my opinion that they were not all to Different

To answer your question of points to the cartoon episode “starscreams brigade”

And of course Megs recognized Shockwave for the threat he was......Again he learned from the mistakes of issues 6 and was bidding his time

Valuable but flawed if you’re trying to simply use math to add up the numbers

Which really isn’t a relevant, if you’re going to try to calculate the numbers then it’s a factor you have to add

And I don’t deny that shockwaves abilities are Impressive, but if he only writes a 9 you can’t deny the ability to use a black hole should merit at the very least a few more digits above 10

And that would change the equation you come up with

But you’re contradicting yourself, because you have already engaged in cross continuity hypotheticals

You are using the tech specs to justify your argument that Comic books Shockeave already beat Megatron

the tech specs are a different continuity then the comics as you full well know

Also I could site similar issues from the tech specs alone, I don’t this hot rod is a super genius and we don’t know it

I’ve stated several times the Shockwave is certainly a contender , but but the fight you refer to certainly doesn’t bear out the conclusion that he has already done the deed Because as I said several times it’s not difficult to beat on the guy who should be in a hospital bed

Strength of will empowered by rage

Believe this or not if you choose, but 2 days after my amputation I hoppy over to the window of my room at the hospital to watch the snow fall

And if you think that’s crazy,The day after my transplant I walked over to the children’s ward just to play a few video games, I fainted on my way back to my room thou....But the point is will power and being hardheaded and get your far sometimes.....But it wasn’t going to help me in a fight

Don’t mean to disrespect but I’m gonna cut you off right there because you are making the assumption he was healed up. There really isn’t anything in the story that proves that to a certainty

And shockwaves confidence or overconfidence doesn’t prove anything whatsoever

 

It's not implied Slag states it as a matter of fact when recounting the events of the battle to Rachet. When Megatron fights them he tosses them around like rag dolls just like Shockwave did.

Already said he underestimated Shockwave in book six.

That's how Math works.

Megatron has the highest possible ranking. He can draw power from a blackhole, but we don't know how much of its power he can effectively use. He's not shooting the entire blackhole at people. 10 is quite fair.

The tech specs and comics are both based on the toys. The back stories of the G1 characters were created at marvel by people handling the toys. The names and mini bios on the boxes were written by Marvel. The 1st issue even shows more toy accurate renditions of characters like Ironhide, Huffer, and Megatron. I haven't crossed my continuities.

And you're making the assumption he wasn't healed up/fixed by issue 7. Why wouldn't he be fully repaired by then? All the Autobots were "dead" there was nothing keeping him from getting the necessary parts and energon.

Anyway we're just retreading the same ground here. I'm not going to change your mind and you won't change mine. It's been a good discussion though, until next time.

 

Proving my assertion, that Megatrons defeat of the Dinobots should not be A factor here

and?
That serves to help my argument not hurt it

ha

math only works to give real answers when you have accurate figures, without that all you got is an estimate, And sometimes not a very good one

and the limits of the tech specs itself is why it’s flawed

in a true measure of fire power, if this was the real world, taping the powers of a black hole would far out class Shockwave ability

10 is very far from fair.

An other good example of unfair ranking is Galvatron

Which is rather irrelevant to this conversation, after all even the G1cartoon is also “based on the toys”....the back story used fir the cartoon was pretty much the same as the toys and comics

And let’s not forget that the G1 cartoon was co-produced by Marvel productions .....but They are all separate continuities And you most certainly crossed them .

There are more than enough differences between the tech specs and the Comics

Nope
The events of Issue 7 takes place Immediately after issue 6, we even see Megatron return to the Ark damaged when he finds ratchet

And even if I was making an assumption, how does that effect the fact that he was still injured during the fight?

It Doesn’t

time
There wasn’t enough time between the two issues you just pointed out

No problem bro
Thanks for the fun, been having trouble sleeping and this Occupied me

 

Didn't Megatron defeated Deathsaurus in the FUNPUB comics? (The Comic Storm)

So I would go with, Galvatron, SixShot, Shockwave, Overloard, Tarn

 

Trypticon, he can just step on Megatron, unless he's Lego(LOL), but seriously, Trypticon

 

Assuming we're talking about G1 Megatron, I would say intelligent Tech Specs Trypticon, Predaking (maybe), pretty much all versions of comic book Shockwave (I'll elaborate on him), Marvel Scorponok, Sixshot (especially in IDW), Deathsaurus, Piranahcon (possibly), Leokaiser (possibly), and Overlord (assuming he lacks the handicap given to him in IDW). Regarding Shockwave, if I was going on the evidence presented in the Marvel US comic, I would not be able to put him on the list. However, unless I'm mistaken, in "The Special Teams Have Arrived", which was published in the Marvel UK comics, a healthy Shockwave fought a healthy Megatron on totally even footing until Soundwave intervened to stop the fight. Thus, he makes it onto this list. Of course, according to the G1 cartoon, any Decepticon could beat Megatron in a fight-provided they had fire-******ant foam or a can of spray paint!  

 

If we're talking the gladiator Megatron that later became the most feared Deception in the galaxy then I'd say there'd be hard time finding anyone who could beat him 1 on 1.
Combiners or Titans would have a decisive advantage in brute strength but Megatron is cunning.
The Phase Sixers could give him run for his money.
But Megatron knows the weaknesses of everyone so despite being outpowered in some cases I wouldn't bet against him in a fight.

 

NONE

 

Yeah, IDW Megatron would be next to impossible to defeat in a straight fight. Even the DJD lost pretty handily, and that was a five-on-one fight.

 

I never considered G1 Megatron unbeatable at all.
More like nobody wanted to try, aside from Starscream (and he was too much a sniveling worm to be a reflection of himself).

 

The answer is the decpticons that beat megatron.
And of course the big guys.

 

I think you're right, but IIRC, Deathsaurus had been badly wounded before their fight even began. So, like the Megatron-Shockwave fight in the Marvel Comics doesn't prove that Shockwave could beat Megartron (as Megatron wasn't at full strength), then I would say that this fight probably wouldn't prove that Megatron can beat a healthy Deathsaurus.

 

Is it really 1 on 1 if one of the combatants is a gestalt?

I think anyone could beat Megatron if they outnumbered him so not even going to address that one. But I agree with what other people have said, that it depends on continuity.

 

I'd like to see this, too. I'm not sure they could beat him in a physical contest, but they could easily topple his rule. As a team that functions primarily as spies, they have access to a great deal of intelligence and information, and information is power in a setting like that. Add in Soundwave's not-inconsiderable sonic powers, Frenzy's sonic screech/drills/piledrivers, Rumble's piledrivers, Ravage's experience with tracking and assassination, and the weaponry and precision of Laserbeak and Buzzsaw, and it wouldn't take long for Megatron's reign to collapse.

Megatron does have more experience even with straightforward brawling, though, at least in most continuities. Motormaster's lack of experience, and, more importantly, his lack of overall skill, would probably be his downfall.

I'm honestly not sure exactly what was going on over issues #5-8. He was obviously very weak going into the fight with Shockwave in issue #6, and was wounded even more badly by the end of the issue. However, in issue #7, he beats up Ratchet easily (admittedly not necessarily a difficult feat for him) and seems to be in good health, yet he still kowtows to Shockwave when he shows up, which implies that he's still not strong enough to take him on. And then, in issue #8, he can take on all five Dinobots at once (and even faster than Shockwave managed to in the flashback panels of issue #4) and shows no signs of injury. It really feels like there was some sort of miscommunication about how wounded Megatron was supposed to be or something.

Yeah, that was underwhelming.

 

What if you were to factor in all of Soundwave's cassettes (he is an army on his own) Buzzsaw, Laszerbeak, Rumble, Frenzy, Ravage, Ratbat, Slugfest, Overkill, Beastbox, Squaktalk, Spacecase, and Wingthing (not sure if I forgot anyone).

 

Good question. Technically, the gestalts are their own individuals, but, at the same time, they ARE still made up of multiple individuals as well.

The more cassettes involved; the better their chances. I still would hesitate to give them a victory over Megatron in a straight-ahead fight, though, unless we're talking about the G1 cartoon continuity where the cassettes frequently took out robots much bigger than them (even Optimus Prime occasionally got knocked down by the cassettes). In that case, Soundwave and company could actually win in a straight contest.

 

Keeping it G1 toon, so the original five then, but it should be known that Soundwave has a lot of minions (another question to factor in, which cassettes if any follow Megatron first or Soundwave), on a 1 v 1 Soundwave fight it, Soundwave could win, he is one powerful bot and the only known/G1 toon shown to produce engergon cubes (Soundwave could wait until Megatron needs energy and deny him).

 

Yeah, when it comes to taking Megatron out, Soundwave is capable of doing so in a variety of ways. Looking at the G1 Cartoon specifically, he and five cassettes could probably beat him even in a straight-ahead fight, but they don't really NEED to. If they take their support away from Megatron, he loses a lot of his power, solely because they are the army's primary source of information.
All that said? I like Soundwave quite a bit better than I like old Buckethead. If they had a fight, I'd be rooting for Soundwave.