DC Comics Discussion

Discussion in 'Comic Books and Graphic Novels' started by Tekkaman Blade, May 31, 2011.

  1. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    Connor Hawke was already cool. The Chuck Dixon Green Arrow run from #101-137 was fucking fantastic. And the art by people like Rosado, Braithewaite, Demaggio, Campanella was amazing. Some of the best art DC was publishing at that time. I was really disappointed when DC chickened out and went back to Oliver. Ollie is a great character, but it had been a long time since he'd been as great as Dixon was writing Connor.

    Also, I loved Connor's team-ups with other second generation heroes like Kyle and Wally. More characters DC should have stuck with.
     
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  2. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    Well part of it was Kevin Smith begged them to let him write Ollie and bring him back. Smith actually kept Connor who shows up at the end of the arc to save Ollie, it was later writers that didn't know what to do with him. Connor is currently guest starring in Robin's book.
     
  3. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    Yeah, and I really don't think it was worth it. I wish DC hadn't given in to Smith to bring back Ollie, and similarly I wish DC hadn't given in to Johns to bring back Barry, or even Hal. We would have been better off in the long run keeping Wally, Kyle and Connor. And Ryan Choi, for that matter. Cass as Batgirl. The list goes on.
     
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  4. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    Bringing back Hal worked fine, Kyle stuck around and the arc up till Blackest Night was great. Bringing Barry back, yeah, I'll agree with that. Connor would be fine. They never knew what the hell to do with Ryan. Cass or Stephanie would have been fine as Batgirl. Ollie I could go either way. I think you could bring him back and give Connor his own super hero identity. His Nightwing moment if you will. The problem was Didio kept mandating things and screwing up books. Many people had to beg him to spare characters in crossovers. Johns had to convince him not to kill Nightwing twice. And don't get me started on how much he seemed to hate Roy Harper. Everytime he had one of those entire titles I enjoyed would be canceled or ruined because of some stupid decision in a crossover. John's Titan run was ruined by Infinite Crisis. As was any hope of fixing Nightwing's title after Devin Grayson ran it into the ground. Right now they have the perfect opportunity to fix a lot of their old mistakes, but they seem hell bent on making new and seemingly worse ones. The only things that have my interest right now is the Flash book looks like it's trying to bring back Wally fully as the Flash and the is a Booster Gold and Blue Beetle book coming out. Everything else seems like a step in the wrong direction.
     
  5. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    It worked okay, and there have certainly been great stories with him since he's been back. I liked everything of Johns' run until Blackest Night. But I think it was unnecessary, because Kyle's series right before Hal came back had finally evolved to the point I thought Kyle had become a legit full replacement. He'd come into his own, and they were in the process of setting up a new Corps, which was the main thing I'd always thought was missing from Kyle's tenure. Other than the personal connection to Sinestro, I don't think there's been anything done with Hal that couldn't have been done just as well with Kyle or John.

    With Barry, I always thought the CSI job had become so timely by the 2000s and I thought there was so much you could do with that now. But they never have. Whether the writers don't have the ability to tell that kind of story or they're just too lazy to do the research that tv writers do, I don't know. But nothing ever came of it, and as huge a Barry fan as I'd been in the 1980s, it was immediately obvious that bringing Barry back was a mistake.

    But with Hal, even before bringing him back, I already felt like the test pilot job was completely unrelatable and uninteresting now. Whatever it meant to readers in the 1950s and '60s, it doesn't mean any of that to audiences now. There's no mystique or even interest surrounding that job now. Jets are about as fast as they're going to get, the space race is long since over, etc. Nobody cares about the Right Stuff anymore. So now you have to keep Hal in space all the time or he gets boring pretty quickly.

    What Simone and then Rick Remender were doing with him in his series was fine, and more interesting than anything that had been done with Ray since Sword of the Atom in the 1980s, which really should have been the end of Ray's story anyway.


    But whatever mistakes or creative missteps DC might be making now, I think we can all agree they pale in comparison to the calamity of Biblical proportions that Didio's "timeline" would have been. We avoided stepping on a nuclear landmine with that one.
     
  6. DrTraveler

    DrTraveler Wheeljack, Wheeljack, Wheeljack

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    Yeah he did. And he made electo-Superman cool. That’s an accomplishment.

    I would also add that Rock of Ages reads like a dry run at Final Crisis, and I like Rock of Ages so much more.
     
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  7. DrTraveler

    DrTraveler Wheeljack, Wheeljack, Wheeljack

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    It was a real step backward for comics as a whole when DC backed away from the new generation of heroes. DC was in the midst of the start of a new age of comics. They were making the new generation high profile heroes. And featuring a lot of them in Morrison’s JLA (which was the high profile book of its day) was really pushing the narrative we were in a new day.

    Then it all fizzled out. Part of it was agreeing to let the Jack Knight Starman and Gaiman’s Sandman be retired. Part of it was John’s bringing back Hal and making that work. But once that all happened the whole thing collapsed and we are back to trying desperately to make the silver age heroes relevant. Just a head slappingly stupid move.
     
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  8. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    Plus, unlike what's going on now, in the '90s, they were second generation heroes that made sense in relation to the generation that came before.
     
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  9. DrTraveler

    DrTraveler Wheeljack, Wheeljack, Wheeljack

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    I’ve been pretty vocal about the idea we need a new age of heroes, ala the silver age. And part of it is that we almost had it in the 90’s only for the movement to be smothered by John’s silver age fascination at DC. It pretty much killed DC comics for me. I haven’t been a loyal reader there since.

    Over at Marvel I’m starting to see hope it could happen.
     
  10. Spartan0996

    Spartan0996 Island Devil

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    Probably an unpopular opinion, but I still think Dick Grayson as Batman post Final Crisis should have stayed the new status quo. Obviously it would never happen because Bruce was always planned to come back and he's one of the world's most popular and iconic super heroes... but I think it would have led to way fresher feeling stories in the long run.
     
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  11. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    I think Dick and Damien has always worked better than Bruce and Damian. Dick was the light one Damian was the dark one. When it's Bruce and Damian it's who can be more brooding. The dynamic just doesn't work well. Honestly think they should have let him stay dead after Morrison killed him.
     
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  12. Spartan0996

    Spartan0996 Island Devil

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    Peter J. Tomasi is like the only writer who made the character work post Grayson Batman. He actually had a character arc and became a better person, before getting handed over to a new creative team that basically just reverted him back to his original Morrison personality.

    I agree, he's just a redundant character now imo. If you need an edgy Batman sidekick, Jason Todd is alive and can fill that role. If you need a lighter toned sidekick, Nightwing, Batgirl or Tim Drake fill that role just as well as they did years ago.
     
  13. DrTraveler

    DrTraveler Wheeljack, Wheeljack, Wheeljack

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    Agreed. There’s a Dick Grayson Batman run in Detective that was pretty amazing and had a handle on how a Dick Grayson Batman could work. It was right before a reset or Bruce’s return or something, and it was special. I think it’s Black Mirror by Synder.
     
  14. Issy543

    Issy543 Well-Known Member

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    Infinite Frontier #3 brought a few characters back in action:

    • Hector Hammond (without the big head).
    • Some of the JSA members, including Power Girl.
    33BD9BB9-DE08-4617-83D3-C70ACA4E1A32.png
    26063161-2122-40C3-A0B1-A2B911189FC9.png
     
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  15. Mudslide

    Mudslide Sick of exclusives

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    Who is the biohazard symbol guy behind female Wildcat? He's familiar but I'm drawing a blank.
     
  16. Issy543

    Issy543 Well-Known Member

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    Looks like a variation of Damage:

    Damage (DC Comics) - Wikipedia
     
  17. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    Yeah looks like damage.
     
  18. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    No prize for guessing which decade a character named "Damage" comes from.
     
  19. Mudslide

    Mudslide Sick of exclusives

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    Omagerd, the 90's how wretched.:rolleyes: 
     
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  20. Tetratron

    Tetratron Well-Known Member

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    How am I supposed to know he's damaged if he doesn't have it tattooed on his head?
     
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