Day 1 locked "Multiplayer Havoc" DLC...

Discussion in 'Transformers Video Game Discussion' started by Tiller, Aug 21, 2012.

  1. Dirge121

    Dirge121 I'll be your end of days

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    As a note, if people are going to buy this then be aware that picking and choosing parts can very easily wind up being more expensive than the actual pack.
    Each piece is 80 MS points and there are 6 pieces per character, so a total of 480 points per character if you do it this was over 800 if you get all 5 at once.
     
  2. itMFtis

    itMFtis Well-Known Member

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    "DLC" seems to have taken on a new meaning these days. I always thought of it as costs of covering devs to continue working on NEW content after a release.
     
  3. Squints

    Squints Well-Known Member

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    Well in some cases it can be costs of covering devs to continue working on new content after the main game is out of development but before it's released. There is downtime before release, as has been pointed out in this thread already--a game isn't being developed continuously until the moment it's released, so why not spend that extra time making something else to make extra money?
     
  4. itMFtis

    itMFtis Well-Known Member

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    Right, I know they absolutely have to have a coding cutoff date, but do you think these characters were integrated after that date? I kind of doubt it, but I guess only HM/Activision knows for sure.
     
  5. Dashdragon

    Dashdragon Well-Known Member

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    As long as there have been PC's and internet with their games, there has always been 'DLC'. It just has not gone by that name. Yes you are correct that it wasn't as common...that's because they used to release games mostly complete on the disk rather than parceling out chunks to charge extra for at launch. Hell, if there were any additions or fixes that they had made since the disks were burned before you installed it, you had a patch to download at -gasp- no cost.

    Trying to reason it out to games like Pitfall and Breakout is the real logical fallacy considering even they weren't programmed by a single guy (well, Pitfall was...Breakout was 3 guys), and the games were a hell of a lot cheaper back then. It's not like $60 has always been the standard for games. They most-definitely have increased in price over the years.

    OK, now that is definitely the company line talking. They certainly aren't starving or anywhere near living in a cardboard box and they are being paid...quite well in fact...for the product they are delivering That's just ridiculous reasoning...if they weren't making money without DLC, then we would never have gotten this far with video games to begin with.

    It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. My main gripe here is people like you who are trying to tell those that feel they are being a bit ripped off are somehow ungrateful idiots who 'just don't understand how games work'...yadda yadda. When the real issue here is people whom have popped into this with the only true examples of gaming being their XBox and PS with Live and PSN. Console games didn't get patched and additional content in the past simply because they couldn't. PC games always have had it and it wasn't until the addition of the consoles that this whole 'unlock content on a disc you already bought' bullshit became so prevalent. So you have the console crowd jumping to defend a system that they truly have no experience in other than "Hey, I can get more out of my games now" Whereas the PC is just forced to take the shaft alongside them because of it.

    To turn the table a bit, your entire reason of logic to why you are right is simply to quote the same irrelevant and biased drivel that they companies themselves push on us.

    This isn't to say that all DLC is bad or what not. There are some legitimate bonuses as it has generated -some- additional content for various games that may not have seen it otherwise. Skins and what not that you might get a few months later and so forth...or another mission that they decided to work up. These are things that come later after the game was sold, however. Not developed during the same man-hours with the same content and developers as the what they would describe as the 'core' game and simply just packaged separate. That's like buying chocolate icecream and being told that you had to pay a fee before you could actually eat it in order to pay for the milk.

    The real problem comes when there is content and game issues that, in the past, would have been taken care of as part of the original purchase of the product, but now have all been chopped up and parceled out to various DLC packs that you have to pay to unlock to use. Games that are fully developed, and then they go back through and pick what they can chop out of it or put a locking barrier in front of so they can ask for more money to actually use it.
     
  6. Cracka J

    Cracka J judas in my mind TFW2005 Supporter

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    Is the simple fact that the information is coded onto the disc what's pissing people off? Lots of shit was coded onto PC WFC as well and you know what we got? Absolutely nothing. Would I have paid $20-$30 more for PC WFC to be on par with 360 and PSN in terms of maps and DLC? I don't think "hell yes" even fully describes how I feel about that.

    Sure, this is a piddly attempt to get a few extra bucks from the players who "want it all". I'm not gonna argue that. But I truly hope it is a step in the right direction to where PC will be on par with the consoles this time around in terms of updates, patches or maps and DLC. If this is the necessary first step to open those doors, I'm all for it.
     
  7. Smashs

    Smashs Internet: Pure Truth Moderator

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    $10 is far too much for nothing but some skins.
     
  8. Squints

    Squints Well-Known Member

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    Fixes are totally different from additional content. They should be provided to players simply as part of the software life cycle; I would say that's a different debate altogether, but it's not even up for debate.

    As for additional content, if they gave it to you for free then they were taking a loss by doing so. It sure was nice of them to do that, but that's not how capitalism usually works. It's funny how there's no middle ground between a company being exceptional for giving away content for free and a company being outright evil having people pay for content.

    I don't mean retail price, I mean production costs. Whether Breakout was developed by exactly 1 or exactly 3 people is irrelevant, my point is, that team was orders of magnitude--powers of ten!--smaller than modern development teams. In fact, on a relatively recent scale, retail prices haven't changed too much. I saw an ad for Sonic the Hedgehog 2, released in 1992, that boasted a retail price of about $55. That's just the thing--the retail price hasn't gone up by much, but teams have gotten bigger and features more advanced and comprehensive. Even Sonic 2 had a dev team of only around 12 people, as I recall. So games cost about the same but are much more complex to create--something has to give somewhere.

    And stop saying "the company line" like it's some sort of rhetorical panacea. What I have to say isn't invalid just because it's beneficial to a company. Obviously no one is starving--because there's a system in place that works, and it involves pricing out content commensurate to the cost of producing it, which as I've already tried to point out multiple times, is increasing. But if that increase in production costs were left unchecked by adding content and pricing it separately from the main game, companies would start seeing losses, jobs would get cut and smaller studios shut down (which happens often enough as it is, even to studios that produce moderately successful products)...no one would starve, but that's because they would all get out of the game industry. Then the industry gets smaller, and the companies that survive have to increase prices even more to stay afloat.

    What company has actually offered any explanation for DLC? I've never heard of it. Maybe somebody has, but I arrived at my conclusion based on what I, personally, know about the industry. I'm not just some sheep spouting something I read in a mission statement on a company website.

    And how do you know that any given content was ripped, fully formed, out of a complete game just to be sold separately? Don't say "because it was shown in preview footage" because lots of things get shown in preview footage that don't wind up in the finished game. There are entire websites dedicated to such content. Hell, there are entire websites dedicated to such content from one or two specific games. Usually those things just get removed and tossed by the wayside when they couldn't be finished before a deadline. Launch DLC means that a dev team can budget additional time after a game's development is finished, which is always necessarily a substantial amount of time before the game is actually released, to finish features they wouldn't have had time to finish otherwise, using extra time and money, and charge extra money for people to use them. The crucial thing about these features is that they're not crucial to gameplay. Your ice cream analogy is flawed--that would be like if they charged money to use any gun whatsoever, or if you needed DLC to transform into vehicle mode.

    Obviously there's a chance that such wasn't the case--my point is that without intimate knowledge of the development process of a specific game, you could no more say that you're definitely right than I could say that I am.
     
  9. twiztidRodimus

    twiztidRodimus Shattered Glass Autobot

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    Nothing is in stone that this will even get a GOTY edition, PLENTY of games have a crap load of DLC and DON'T get GOTY editions. I wouldn't hold my breath
     
  10. Forceman4077

    Forceman4077 Well-Known Member

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    You guys know it's bullshit to call this "dlc" right? It's really "odc" on-disc content or "lodc" lock on-disc content.

    And you can't say Wheeljack, Perceptor, and Blast Off weren't designed and made in the original budget of the game. Those guys aren't added content, they are just something HM and Acvtivison figured people would be dumb enough to buy. So they locked them behind a pay wall.
     
  11. Shizuka

    Shizuka Optimus Prime's Scriptor

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    Skins is Stealth Bumblebee for Bumblebee or G1 for Optimus. These are whole new models that can be used as is or taken a apart. That in my opinion is a little better than skins.

    The day they release a decal/colour pack at £10 is the day I can complain about this.

    Btw, why do I have to pay £10 when Americans pay $10? That seems a little unfair since the values aren't equal
     
  12. Blitz.

    Blitz. Well-Known Member

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    MS points tend to workout like £1=$1 and I hear you cant use US codes on a EU account as the keys and generated for each region so buying them online from a 3rd party does not always work(dont hold me to that I might be wrong)
     
  13. guard convoy

    guard convoy The Big Daddy

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    the first game you could play as your DLC characters in escalation
     
  14. Shizuka

    Shizuka Optimus Prime's Scriptor

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    I know that but what I'm saying is that if DLC characters are in then they'll be preselected like the others. Wheeljack in in one map for example but we don't know about the others. If they're not assigned to a map then we'll have to assume that if HMS are planning to include them we'll have to get entirely new maps.
     
  15. Dark Magnus

    Dark Magnus Your opinion is wrong!

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    Because there wasn't a GOTY edition for WFC...
     
  16. Tiller

    Tiller I don't know nothin'

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    Guys.


    Guys. What if. Guys seriously. Guys.


    What if these five characters were open for everyone as it should be, and High Moon worked on additional character packs to release at the inevitable title updates/patches and DLC waves so then everyone would still have the content they paid for at launch, but additional content added would be still available for everyone since the updates are mandatory downloads anyway.


    I know crazy right? Lets just lock the characters that are already finished and charge our players out the ass for it!



    There is no excuse for on disk day 1 dlc. That "well its cheaper for developers that the content is there that you haven't paid for" bullshit should never happen on already finished content. Character packs should be worked in with content updates that naturally occur, which will solve the problem of everyone not being able to play with one another, which maps mostly screw up anyway. It would also be something I am fine with, since all the content I paid for at launch is there for me, but the additional update that added new characters down the line would be content added that I didn't pay for it yet.
     
  17. guard convoy

    guard convoy The Big Daddy

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    peoples over reaction to this as if it was some big tragedy is insane

    we all knew this would happen, its DLC, what do you expect, be it on the disk or not, i'm gonna buy it, cause i want those characters, and hey, its $10 that goes to support high moon to make another game, that's fine by me.

    i'd rather have it now then have to wait forever for it, seriously, everyone, calm the fuck down, did high moon steal your baby or something? that's how a lot of folks are acting
     
  18. Tiller

    Tiller I don't know nothin'

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    I really enjoy watching one of my favorite pass times become increasingly stupid because people can't see that they are being ripped off. Dashdragon had it right. Not to many of you know how things used to be before consoles starting getting content updates. There may be nothing I can do to stop anyone from buying the pack and thus showing developers they can get away with this, but just know I'm going to bitching the whole time it's happening.

    And what's the deal with "I'd rather have it now" crap? You would have it now if it was free. The problem was not holding these characters until after launch, Day 1 just rubs it in harder. If these characters were available for everyone and new characters would be worked on for later content patches, then there wouldn't be any issue at all.
     
  19. Dashdragon

    Dashdragon Well-Known Member

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    Squints - Forgive if I skip the quotes to avoid bulking our responses even more.

    You see, here's the thing. You quote Sonic the Hedgehog 2 and give some vaguely remembered retail price as evidence of games not having gone up in price. However, that game was made back in 1992. (and also a console game) My memory is fairly clear in remembering that the games varied in price by a large margin back in those days with some being only 20 bucks while others were 50 (a few for the more 'elite' of systems went beyond that, but they sank for a reason). Today, for any main developer, it's almost always going to be 50 to 70 bucks.

    Plus, back then, you weren't just buying some 25 cent disk with a fancy label thrown on it as they were cartridge games so there was more of your purchase going to the actual production of the medium and not just the developers. Cartridges had a lot more going on for production than a disk today. Though they try to fill that gap with fancy packaging sometimes.

    I used the term 'company line' because that's what I'm hearing with most of your statements. It's the same lame duck excuses they have been trying to push on people and the additional variations the whole time. You may not be saying specific things because they are what you were told or what have you, but it doesn't change that the message is about the same as what they toss at us.

    You pay a dev X salary to put in their at least 40 hours a week doing Y job. Are they going to suddenly get paid more because Y job only took 30 hours and they spent the other 10 working on a new skin? No...that's just part of their job and they had free time so they filled it with other tasks. I don't get paid any more if I migrate 10 servers instead of the scheduled 3. That's not how employment works. I may have specific tasks and deadlines, but I don't get paid more if I have additional work I end up having to do on the side of those.

    Though, as you said, being on the outside it's not that simple to state how they have their infrastructure, but it's a stretch to believe that it's going to be all that alien from any other office environment other than the specific work duties.

    They put in the time and effort to setup the disk with the content from the get go, and then cherry-picked some to withhold and placed a pay-gate in front of it. There's really no saving that sort of thing or justification. They might say "well we could've just charged 10 more for the game instead but figured this was a more reasonable option for our customers" (sound familiar? It's that whole 'company line' thing again)

    And here's the thing...I wouldn't have anything to say if they did just charge 10 more for the game. They give me a disk with a game on it that has content that altogether has a worth of $70, then I should pay $70. Not $60 and just be unable to make use of a portion of the game features on the disk I own. However, if 5 characters and whatever piddly junk the rest entails are $10...then they got some weird pricing schemes for the rest of the game.

    Buying additional content is something that should be done -after- the game has been released. Content that was created after the original game disk.
     
  20. Dashdragon

    Dashdragon Well-Known Member

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    It really is never 'free' to be honest. They got paid while developing it to put it on the disk, and you paid for it when you bought the disk and all the content on it. Though I guess we can say 'free' as a simple form of stating 'no additional cost'